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September 30, 2007

The Great Mets Collapse Of 2007

This whole Mets-Phillies race really had my attention over the past few days.

First, I'm a baseball history nut. I just can't get enough of it. And, the event of a team blowing a 7-game lead with 17 games to go is, well, something for baseball history.

Think of it this way: If you had a 7-game lead with 17 games to go, and the team chasing you went nuts, and they went 14-3 (a winning percentage of .824!), still, all you would need to do is go 8-9 in your remaining games to hold them to second place. Yes, you could close with a losing record while the other team played .800-baseball and you would still finish first. So, to lose that type of lead, you're really blowing it.

Second, as I've stated before, I feel bad for Willie Randolph here. When you're a manager and this happens to you, it goes on your resume and it never leaves - ever. When you hear "Gene Mauch" you think "1964 Phillies." That stayed with Mauch his entire career. The same can happen here, now, with Willow. That's sad.

Third, as to why this thing had my interest, is more of an experiment/study type thing.

As a Yankees fan, I know how I feel about the 2004 ALCS - especially how I felt at that time. I was angry, disgusted and embarrassed. (And, today, I'm still upset about it - in some ways.) But, I could not say for sure that I knew (then) how other baseball fans felt about the Yankees failures in that series - outside of Boston, of course - or how they felt towards Yankees fans at that time (or later). Now, having seen another team, close by, where I know many fans of the team, choke one up, I have some perspective.

Don't get me wrong, as a Yankees fan, there's a slice of me that feels good having this "seven and seventeen" card to play now whenever a Mets fan wants to get on my case about 2004.

However, it's not like I now feel like I'm loaded for bear and need to start shooting at anything that poops in the woods. I followed the collapse, witnessed history, felt bad for a former Yankee, and, now, it's over. It's in the books and that's pretty much it. I may not even mention it to my Mets fans friends unless they bring it up first.

Perhaps I feel this way because of the 2004 ALCS? Maybe the historic choke of 2007 by the Mets would resonate longer (or different) with me if not for the recent Yankees choke? It's possible. But, since I cannot make the 2004 ALCS results go away - as much as I would like to - I'll never know for sure.

To me, at this time, the great Mets collapse of 2007 is just another flashy news story that will soon lose it's place in the headlines to the next great sensational new shocker.

Is this the way that non-Yankees and non-Bosox fans feel about the 2004 ALCS? Is it old and forgotten news already? Maybe not - considering the fact that it was Boston and New York, and the history and the hype there?

As Yankees fans, how do you feel about the great Mets collapse of 2007 now that it's a reality?

Posted by Steve Lombardi at September 30, 2007 08:14 PM


How do I feel?

It couldn't have happened to a better group of fans!

Seriously, the Mets fans had gotten overly pompous and boastful these past few years. I'd spent some time at Shea and felt like I was at Fenway, so I'm glad this happened.

Everyone needs a dose of reality sometimes.

Posted by: dave24s [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 30, 2007 10:05 PM

As Yankees fans, how do you feel about the great Mets collapse of 2007 now that it's a reality?
I was fairly indifferent to the whole thing (it was like a trainwreck), but I called my uncle and left choking sounds on his answering machine. :)

I only did that because he was busting my chops about 2004. Kept showing me that Daily News photo of Babe Ruth with a tear in his eye.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 30, 2007 10:14 PM


I actually live right outside of Philly and work pretty much in Philly and practically all the people I work with are Phillies fans and I couldn't help but root for them. The Phillies are actually a fun team to watch with a lot of great guys on the team (not incl. Mr. Myers). I mean that too - the personal stories from people I know that have interacted with them and the news items on most of the team have almost uniformly been good.

As for how I feel? Well, remember 1995, when the Yankees got into the playoffs for the first time in what seemed like forever? That's the kind of euphoria that's taking place around here and I gotta tell you, it would be very hard not to get caught up in it. The city of Philadelphia invests a lot of emotion into their teams and it's nice to see that rewarded.

As for the Mets, they have no one to blame but themselves, just like the Yanks had no one to blame in 04.

Posted by: James Varghese [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 30, 2007 10:27 PM

They aren't the Yankees, therefore, I could not care less what happens to them.

Posted by: SteveB [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 12:18 AM

I feel bad for our #30 who has 6 rings as a player and coach.

Maybe if Willie had one front-line pitcher anywhere near his prime he wouldn't be in this mess.

Now he will have to listen to a bunch of loser "analysts," loser fans and loser media types tell us all why a guy who has done nothing but win his whole career can't get it done.

Posted by: Joel [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 12:35 AM

An interesting angle...
90% of non-Yankee fans spend at least a few days each October hating the Yankees. So the 2004 collapse will always be remembered because it was the Yankees in October on national tv.

While we've now got ammo for the next time a Met fan gets uppity, it will hardly be the big deal that 2004 was/is.

Posted by: jscape2000 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 12:53 AM

Personally, I don't care about other teams' collapses (unless it's the Red Sox). The Mets' collapse is only useful as ammo against an uppity Mets fan.

And I feel sorry for Willie -- but chalk it up as a learning experience for him.

Posted by: rbj [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 08:23 AM

Guillermo Mota?


Now, that's a reach.

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 08:42 AM

Actually, thinking about it some more, the whole 2004 vs. 2007 thing is interesting.

In 2004, the Yankees needed to win once in 4 tries.

In 2007, the Mets needed to win two in 7 tries.

Sorta close, huh?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 09:27 AM


Date Team Lead

Sept. 12, 2007 New York Mets 7

Sept. 1, 1938 Pittsburgh Pirates 7

Sept. 6, 1934 New York Giants 7

Sept. 4, 1995 California Angels 6

Sept. 20, 1964 Philadelphia Phillies 6

Sept. 8, 1951 Brooklyn Dodgers 6

Then again, looking at the above, maybe 2007 is worse than 2004?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 09:30 AM

They were both awful, but I would say the Mets has been made a little worse for the fans by being drug out for a longer time.

I see that the stories about the Indians-Yankees series are going to the tired angle of the Indians inexperience versus the Yankees experience. Is it too much to ask for something the slightest bit fresh from the media? Did we not just see the "inexperienced" Tigers beat the Yanks last season, or the Marlins in 2003? And how many times will we hear about the disparity in payroll? I'm guessing an average of at least once for every at bat in the series.

Posted by: JeremyM [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 09:39 AM

"Kings of New York"


Posted by: Jason O. [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 10:06 AM

Steve, I guess it depends on how much weight you give the regular season vs. the postseason. Either way, both collapses were historic in nature.

I don't consider one to be worse than the other; each occurred under different times & different circumstances.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 10:38 AM

Actually, now that I think of it, the 2004 collapse may be a bit worse, because it happened against the Red Sox. While I'm not up to speed on the Mets rivalries (I remember NY-STL used to be pretty big, and recently it was NY-ATL), I don't think the Phillies were considered more than division rivals.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2007 10:41 AM