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April 13, 2008
Girardi Goofed Not Having Fresh Arm Face Manny
In what turned out to be the biggest moment in yesterday's Yanks-Sox game, Joe Girardi let the call sit in Mike Mussina's hands. Via Sam Borden:
[Girardi] saw Kevin Youkilis in the on-deck circle and thought about how good Youkilis is at taking pitches and working walks. If Mussina put Ramirez on and loaded the bases, he would have had little wiggle room against Youkilis and his honed batting eye. The choice wasn't as clear-cut as it seemed, Girardi thought.
So Girardi didn't send pitching coach Dave Eiland to the mound. He went himself, and then he asked Mussina which hitter he was more comfortable facing. Mussina indicated he had no particular preference, and would just as soon prefer trying to get Ramirez. "He asked me, I told him what I thought, and he seemed OK with it," Mussina said. Girardi was. He nodded and, as he started to leave the mound, Mussina told him that he would just walk Ramirez if he fell behind in the count. Girardi then returned to the dugout.
Whether you believe it was a good one or not, that was the plan: Stay away, nibble at the plate and, if you get down in the count, put Ramirez on. The only problem was that it turned out that there was no count at all. The first pitch was supposed to be a down-and-away curveball and it backed up over the plate. Ramirez swung, the sellout crowd screamed and the Yankees went from ahead to behind on the scoreboard.
As much as I love Joe Girardi - and, I do think the world of him - I have some issues with this one. First, the pitcher is always going to think that he can "get this guy" - at least he will if he's worth his salt. So, asking Mussina if he had a "preference" on who to face is probably a waste of time. But, more importantly, if the plan was to nibble and then walk Manny if you fell behind in the count, doesn't it make more sense to have a fresh pitcher in the game in that spot?
Mussina, leading into that at bat with Manny, had thrown quite a few pitches requiring some effort, and, given that it was the sixth inning, Moose's command - which was good most of the game - was probably starting to weaken.
Granted, Brian Bruney was up in the pen - and he's not exactly someone who you can trust to hit his spots.
Perhaps it would have made sense to have Ross Ohlendorf up in that spot? To date, this season, Ohlendorf has faced 25 batters, walked none of them, and whiffed six. In addition, to date, right-handed batters are only hitting .083 against Ohlendorf.
Sure, that's a tough spot for a rookie - Fenway Park, Manny, etc. But, I'd rather have a fresh-armed rookie who has shown some good stuff and control in that situation than a somewhat gassed and past his prime Mussina.
This one hurts - because it turned out to be a one-run loss to the Red Sox. But, hopefully, it's a learning experience for General Joe. It's fine to ask the opinion of your players, and, it's fine to have a plan; but, next time, have the right players in place to give you a chance to succeed at that plan.
Posted by Steve Lombardi at April 13, 2008 09:31 AM
Comments
Here's where baseball analysis gets funny.
If Moose gets Manny to either ground out or strike out, Girardi is a genius for leaving his starter in.
"I asked Mike what he wanted and he was determined to get Ramirez. He handled him well. I'd say that was the key to us winning the game." That's what Girardi would say.
And all the writers and bloggers would be saying, "Girardi showed guts sticking with Moose, something Torre would never do."
You know, it must really suck to be a big league manager. You can't win, even if you win 101.
Off topic: Steve, I've always wanted to ask this question - In 2004, how in the world did the Yankees win 101 games with that rotation?
Posted by: dave24s ![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.waswatching.com/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 13, 2008 11:17 AM
If Mussina had gotten Manny out then Girardi would have been lucky...not a genius.
I agree with you Steve that the pitcher isn't going to back down from the challenge. That's why Girardi is the manager so that he can make the tough decisions and not leave it up to Mussina.
That was a classic Torre move in my mind to leave it up to one of his players because he trusts him.
You have to walk Manny in that situation because you can't let their best hitter beat you plus then you have a force out at every base.
Sure Youkalis may have gotten a hit but you have to make him beat you, he is not the same caliber of hitter that Manny is.
Posted by: antone at April 13, 2008 12:51 PM
I can tell this story is going to get beaten to DEATH here in New York.
Girardi had the final decision. There were a few options and he discussed it with the pitcher on the mound. So what?
I don't agree with what he did, though. If you're going to take Mussina out anyway, just bring in Bruney to face Manny. Bruney is no guarantee to get him out, but he's been good this year and you can get Manny out with a good fastball.
"The first pitch was supposed to be a down-and-away curveball and it backed up over the plate."
And that was not a curveball. It looked like a fastball on the outside corner that drifted back.
Posted by: baileywalk at April 13, 2008 01:07 PM
>> I can tell this story is going to get beaten to DEATH here in New York. >>
Courtesy of 'you-know-who' on 'FAN, undoubtedly.
Considering what Manny had done in previous at-bats, you just had to get someone fresh in there. Don't let Manny or Papi beat you - if Youkilis tags one, so be it.
Posted by: Pete at April 13, 2008 02:08 PM
I agree with the post. In that situation, the manager has to make a rational decision based on the percentages. Moose was gassed, thus a fresh reliever would have been the better option. Ramirez is Boston's best hitter (and best clutch hitter) so there was no reason to give him anything to hit and probably would have been better to walk him. First base was open, and a walk to Ramirez gives you a force at every base.
In short, there was every reason not to let Moose pitch to Manny. The only reason in favor was Moose's believe that he could get him out - which is not a reliable indicator.
Posted by: Nettles vs. Lee at April 13, 2008 02:42 PM