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March 20, 2008
Jeter's Value
Shaun Payne of Dugout Central attempts to answer the question "How Valuable Has Jeter Really Been to the Yankees?" (Hat tip to BaseballThinkFactory.org on this one.)
Fragile Freddy also looked into this question, two months ago.
After Freddy, and before Payne, this blog looked into the matter - as did Sky Kalkman as well.
It's an interesting debate. There's no question that Derek Jeter adds value to the Yankees. Perhaps the bigger question is: How much longer will Derek Jeter add value to the Yankees?
After all, Derek will be 34 this season. And, last year, he hit more like a Carney Lansford type batter than an MVP. Then, of course, there's the range issue at short.
Does Derek Jeter have five (or so) more years left in him where he can provide value to the Yankees? It's a very interesting question, indeed.
Posted by WW Staff at March 20, 2008 10:49 AM
Comments
Last year, Jeter turned in a .322/.388/.452 line. At age 33, Lansford hit .268/.333/.320, and at his best, Lansford was worse than Jeter in 2007. I don't think that's a fair comparison to Jeter really.
The range however should have moved him off short years ago.
Posted by: Ben K. ![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.waswatching.com/nav-commenters.gif)
at March 20, 2008 11:59 AM
What gets me about the Jeter debate and similar questions about player value is that it's really not that hard a question to figure out (if you're not afraid of some basic math.) Jeter's 2007 hitting was worth about 40 runs above replacement (basic linear weights with park adjustment). His 2007 position adjustment is +6 runs for playing shortstop almost full time. Fielding has larger error bars, but the average of his STATS and BIS zone ratings is -24 runs. Overall, he's 22 runs above replacement, which is almost 2.5 wins, or slightly above average for a full time position player. Aging is, on average, -.5 runs per season after age 28. So best guess puts Jeter out of baseball in five years.
Posted by: Sky at March 20, 2008 12:19 PM
The Carney Lansford comp was meant to imply:
RH-batter, good BA, no power. On the whole, not as an age to age compare.
Posted by: WW Staff at March 20, 2008 12:42 PM
Regardless of what you meant, the comp to Lansford is a bad one. Also, Jeter's last three SLG are .450, .483 and .450 and HR totals are 19, 14 and 12. That is far from "no power".
Posted by: williamnyy at March 20, 2008 01:33 PM
Except that Jeter DOES have power. At least more power than the average shortstop. He's not exactly Juan Pierre or Scott Podsednik out there.
Posted by: Andrew at March 20, 2008 01:34 PM
Andrew, williamnyy - Isolated Power measures the “true power” of a batter. The formula is SLG-BA.
Jeter's 2008 Isolated Power = .130
Carney Lansford's lifetime Isolated Power = .121
FYI.
Posted by: WW Staff at March 20, 2008 02:04 PM
Career OPS+
Jeter: 122
Lansford 111
The comparison is inapt.
Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2008 03:11 PM
Rich, your comparison is inapt.
OPS factors in more than just power, than power alone. That's why I used Isolated Power.
OPS factors in walks, and batting average, etc.
Posted by: WW Staff at March 20, 2008 03:15 PM
That would be true, WWS, if Jeter's career SLG wasn't .051 higher. That's significant.
Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2008 04:06 PM
Rich - You're missing the point. I'm not comparing career to career. I'm comparing Jeter '07 to C.L.'s career totals in ISO. Like I said, he's becoming a CL-type batter. I never said he's been one all along.
Posted by: WW Staff at March 20, 2008 04:11 PM
But if you compare Lansford's SLG at age 33 (.320) to Jeter's SLG at age 33 in 2007 (.452), I think the disparity is stark. This may be like the blind men looking at the elephant, but from my perspective I don't see the similarities.
Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2008 04:16 PM
Jeter's career ISO, vs. the league average: -.016
Lansford's career ISO, vs. the league average: -.014
Jeter's had a negative ISO, vs. the league average, 6 times in the past 7 years
Jeter's career HR, vs. the league average: -31
Lansford's career HR, vs. the league average: -26
Jeter's career EBH, vs. the league average: -4
Lansford's career EBH, vs. the league average: -13
Posted by: Lee Sinins at March 20, 2008 04:19 PM
Lee,
Do you still have a blog?
Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2008 04:22 PM
No.
In fact, you could say that I never really had one in the first place.
The only thing on the blog was the ATM reports and 1 other entry.
There was no point in cutting and pasting and tags all over the place to make the stats line up correctly for online ATM reports that nobody ever read.
Posted by: Lee Sinins at March 20, 2008 04:48 PM
I understand, but I checked it out regularly.
Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2008 04:51 PM
Jeter won a silver Slugger @ Shortstop last year. So yes, he has value.
Good God, people act like he is David Eckstein or something. Show the man some respect.
Carney Lansford....tut tut.
Posted by: Bradley at March 20, 2008 05:15 PM