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February 19, 2008
Torre: Last 3 Years Were Uncomfortable In New York
Via Paul Hagen - with a hat tip to BaseballThinkFactory.org:
Torre now admits that he saw the end coming for at least 3 years and added that, if the Dodgers hadn't called, he might well be sitting home today.
His situation began to sour, he reflected, after his team blew a lead of three games to none to the archrival Red Sox in the 2004 American League Championship Series.
"The last 3 years were difficult. I think it started probably with losing to the Red Sox. Because that becomes a mortal sin," he said. "And even though the Red Sox were obviously a very good team that year, we got lucky early. They didn't play well. Then we had two leads in Games 4 and 5 we couldn't hold onto.
"Since that time, it may be a little too strong to say [the Yankees] wanted to make a change. But for me it wasn't as comfortable. It could have been self-induced. I don't know. Last season was very uncomfortable, especially with the bad start we had. There were a lot of questions and stories I had to address.
"I'm sure it took its toll on me, but when you walk into the clubhouse and all of a sudden the players aren't sure what they should say, what they shouldn't say, your coaching staff, that made it doubly uncomfortable for me. I just think over the last few years it was gradually getting to the point of not being a helluva lot of fun. The baseball was still fun, but aside from that . . . "
You have to wonder who in the Yankees organization was making Joe not feel comfortable. It probably was not Big Stein. The last three seasons, George has been a figurehead. Was it Brian Cashman? I doubt that – and I doubt it was Steve Swindal. Those two always seemed in Joe’s corner. Hank and Hal were not in power for the last three years. This leaves Randy Levine. There were reports that it was Levine who sent Torre packing.
Torre was near perfect for the Yankees from 1996 through the end of the regular season in 2004. But, he did seem to lose something (Don Zimmer?) after that run. If it was, in fact, Levine who ran him out of town, it may just be the best thing that Randy’s done for the Yankees during his tenure with the team.
Posted by WW Staff at February 19, 2008 09:36 AM
Comments
I thought the situation with Torre at the end of the season was like a relationship gone sour. Both sides knew it had to end, but neither wanted to be the bad guy.
Torre's comments back that up, which is why I thought he was wrong to say he was "insulted" by the Yankees making him an offer he could refuse, to allow him to close the door instead of being shown it.
Posted by: Paul Katcher ![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.waswatching.com/nav-commenters.gif)
at February 19, 2008 11:17 AM
I am more then farmiliar with randy levine from his pre-yankee days when he was a deputy mayor then anything else.
He is/was a fall guy for torre.
He plays his job to the "T". He will never be out of work, guys like him play the role of the bad guy when you want them to, they fall on the sword when asked to, and do any and all dirty work you want them to do.
Levine was a puppet, whomever had a prob with Torre, had a perfect face to use, Levine will also probably be gone by 2010, his job was to get this stadium deal done, once the dust clears, he'll move on to another job.
Posted by: Sonny M at February 19, 2008 11:46 AM
Agreed, Sonny. Your take is spot on.
Posted by: JohnnyC at February 19, 2008 12:01 PM
Maybe I have missed it, but has Torre ever taken responsibility for anything that he did wrong in the 2004 ALCS collapse, or any of the other playoff failures? It seems that he wants credit for the wins, but no blame for the losses.
Posted by: Rich at February 19, 2008 12:02 PM
JohnnyC is a genius. I have been saying the SAME thing for years. I was always in Torre's corner, but he deserved some harsh critisism in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. My voice still hurts from SCREAMING at the tv when the bugs were flying in Joba's face and Joe didn't take the team off the field.
Posted by: Mike at February 19, 2008 12:16 PM
Sorry, I mean Rich is the genius.
Posted by: Mike at February 19, 2008 12:18 PM
>> My voice still hurts from SCREAMING at the tv when the bugs were flying in Joba's face and Joe didn't take the team off the field. >>
Same here.
Posted by: Pete at February 19, 2008 12:22 PM
Johnny, long time no see. Come around more often.
Rich, you're right. Torre never takes blame. Like even now -- they got "lucky" to be up three games, and he says the "mortal sin" was losing to the Sox. It would have been a mortal sin blowing that lead to the Twins. It wasn't about who they were playing; it was about becoming the biggest joke in sports history. And his "management" in the final game -- which should have been played like a dying man fighting for his last breath -- was lousy, to say the least.
The thing that always galled me the most about Torre was his lack of accountability. I grew truly sick of his woe-me, I'm-so-wounded, I'm-so-hurt, poor-poor-me act. I'm so glad he's gone. I can't predict how well Girardi will do, but I guarantee he'll act like a goddamned adult.
Posted by: baileywalk at February 19, 2008 12:22 PM
I grew truly sick of his woe-me, I'm-so-wounded, I'm-so-hurt, poor-poor-me act. I'm so glad he's gone. --
I was most insulted by his being insulted, but now that Bailywalk mentions it, "if the Dodgers hadn't called, he might well be sitting home today" -- case in point.
Posted by: Exit9 at February 19, 2008 02:07 PM
But, he did seem to lose something (Don Zimmer?) after that run.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zimmer was there from 2000 - 2004. They lost in the postseason then too. His presence had zilch to do with it.
Joe Torre was the best manager the Yanks have ever had in my 50 years of watching them.
The Yankees were lucky to even make it to the postseason since 2000. Their pitching has stunk (except for Mo). Lousy pitching shows up in the postseason. Blame the bugs. Blame whatever. If the pitching stinks, the team stinks. It was a miracle (and Joe Torre) the team made it to the postseason the last few years.
Posted by: redbug at February 19, 2008 06:19 PM
redbug, you mean the pitching stunk like Cy Young winner Roger Clemens and should've-won-Cy Young candidate Mike Mussina in 2001?
I'm not upset at the losses in the playoffs that were the result of bad pitching. But there are some pretty clear choices that could have turned the tide. Obviously, he should have kept the infield back in 2001, gone to Mo over Jeff &*^%$#@ Weaver in 2003, and bunted on Schilling in 2004. No offense, but his job wasn't to be classy. His job was to win games.
The Yanks had times when they had the advantage. 2004 is the embodiment of that. It's a humilliation that cannot ever be matched or outstripped. And part of that rests on Mo, but part of it rests on abysmal pen usage (Flash in a 9-run game?!?!?!) and just common sense failures.
Posted by: jeterismyhomeboy at February 19, 2008 08:17 PM
I'm not upset at the losses in the playoffs that were the result of bad pitching. But there are some pretty clear choices that could have turned the tide. Obviously, he should have kept the infield back in 2001, gone to Mo over Jeff &*^%$#@ Weaver in 2003, and bunted on Schilling in 2004.
------------------
Or going to Pettitte in gm 6 in 2001, starting Wells in 2003, or going to Mo in the 8th inning in gm 5 in 2004.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Witness 2003; who woulda thunk that Clemens would get shelled?
Posted by: Raf at February 20, 2008 12:04 PM