WasWatching.com

Wow, Omar Minaya? Really? Something tells me that if you were a Mets fan, Minaya would be at the bottom of the list. He's does EVERYTHING Cashman does, except worse. A HELL of a lot worse. The only reason he got Santana was not due to his acumen, it was due to Cashman and Theo not pulling the trigger. Even with Santana, the Mets are not the team to beat. Philly could very, very easily pass them, with a great one-two punch of Hamels and Myers at the top of the rotation, and an amazing infield of Rollins, Howard and Utley. The Mets have an absolute zero of a farm system. If they don't win it all in 2008, they are cooked geese for the next 5 years. Hell, even if they do win it all in 2008, they're cooked for the next 5 years.

But, at least you admit your irrational hatred for the work Cashman does. It's nice to get it right out in the open, isn't it?

haterade...haterade...can say...haterade.

Hate Cashman much?

Billy Beane escapes criticism far too often these days.

Omar Minaya should be ranked ahead of Cashman? LOL. Put down the pipe and pick up some smelling salts.

Pat Gillick? Please. Didn't he allow Brett Myers pitch the day after being arrested for kicking his wife's arse?

Josh Byrnes is still underrated. I'd give you him.

Kevin Towers really? That's a bit of a stretch. He's following the Brian Sabean method of bringing in aging veterans to replace young players.

Kenny Williams? Sorry Steve but I had to laugh at that. He`s one of the worst in baseball. Look were he`s brought the White Sox in 3 short years.

Minaya? Towers? Gillick? Seriously, are you joking?

Now, something tells me you looked for ways to push him down to the middle of the pack just to prove yourself right.

Josh Byrnes? Here's how Byrnes' teams have done:
2005: 77-85
2006: 76-86
2007: 90-72

ALL of the young players on the team (Snyder, Jackson, Drew, Webb, Young) were drafted by the previous GM. So was their newest phenom, Justin Upton. He recently traded three prospects for an aging Randy Johnson, then signed him to an extension. He traded away Greg Aquino and Johnny Estrad and got Doug Davis and a pile of nothing. It remains to be seen whether the 8 players he gave up for Dan Haren will be worth it.

His report card is "incomplete" at best. How that's better than 10 straight division titles and 11 straight playoff appearances, I don't know.

Actually, your list of who is better is very revealing.

-Omar Minaya, whose strategy for building a team is dumping out the minor league system and spending the maximum to sign free agents.

-Bill Stoneman, whose strategy for building a team is drafting well but then not having the balls to make a single move in free agency or with trades. As a result, he signd Vlad Guerrero in 2004 and has waffled on Miguel Tejada, Roy Oswalt, Manny Ramirez, Paul Konerko, and Aramis Ramirez to the point that Vlad is now near the end of his career and had to wait this long for an outfield of Garry Matthews and Torii Hunter.

-Walt Jocketty, whose strategy for building a team is basically trying to figure out the magic formula for sucking less than the rest of his competition in the NL Central. For a team with a new stadium, a loyal fanbase, and absolutely no regional competition for sponsorship and marketing revenues, he stopped trying after he acquired Scott Rolen. The Mulder trade was a total disaster (you'd have killed Cashman for the same thing) and he did absolutely nothing to improve the ballclub since peaking in 2004.

-Ken Williams whose strategy for building a team is having a plan and sticking to it...for one year, until the plan needs changing again. Scott Linebrink and Octavio Dotel for those years and that money? Not realizing that Scott Podsednik sucks? Trading Jon Garland for a shortstop (Orlando Cabrera) even though he re-signed his own shortstop (Uribe - who happens to be one of the worst players in baseball)?

As for Andrew Friedman...everyone's on the Devil Rays tip right now. I still want to see then win 70 games in a season and I want someone to acknowledge that trading Delmon Young for Matt Garza was the stupidest thing in the world. Garza stinks.

Gillick? the same Pat Gillick that traded Bobby Abreu for abosalutely nothing?

Kenny Williams got lucky in 05 and now is slowly looking terrible, he probably misread the team 's chance this year and is going to seriously pay soon.

Omar Minaya's record in Monteral was horrible, you do realize that he's the guy that traded
Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips for half a season of Bartolo Colone right? when your the GM that essentially killed a frachise, you need a lot to prove yourself again.

grading GM is very pointless exercise, and anyone not realizing it is delusional. they all work with different (short term) goals, different budget, different level of autonmy, and different teams to base off.

The only GM you can find that never made a bad move or 10 in the majors are those that just got hired. EVERYONE will swing and miss sometime.

when looking at a GM I'm basicaly just going to think.

a. is he correctly assesing the team's position going foward? (do they need to rebuild ? are they on a buble? are they a true contender?) and make moves accordingly, does Cashman do that? yes. though it doesn't take a genius to understand where the Yankee stands but he's at least realized some of the fundmental flaws of the team adn is at least trying to improve on it.

b. are most of his moves reasonablly (without hindsight invovled) consieved and executed? I think Cashman does that. a lot of his mega swings and misses ( Vazquez, Pavano) were pretty well concieved at the time.

c. does he outsmart other GM at times? Cashman clearly outsmarted Pat Gillick in the Abreu trade. can you name one trade where you feel that he was throughly fleeced?

d. does he actively try to find value where other poeple aren't looking? yes.

my basic feeling is that he's a competent GM, and one that works out well for the team. I feel the same about many other GM. I don't think Cashman would do well in Oakland nor do i think Beanes would give the Yankees 27 more rings.

FWIW, and FYI, here's a reason to put Omar over Cashman in these rankings:

http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2008/01/cash_vs_theo_vs.html

My basic feeling on the GMs, the onces I think really fucked up badly are.

Bill Bavasi, Ned Colleti, Kenny Williams, Ed Wade.

Everyone else is either competent or too soon to tell.

Just watch the M's and White Sox finish around .500 or worse and miss the playoff this year then steadily falling.

Colleti inherited one of the best group of youngesters in the game (i think only the Rays really beat them) with the biggest payroll in the division and manged to fuck it up with them finishing 4th behind *3* teams that essentially have half their payroll is completely unjustifiable. the Juan Pierre signing is beyond all justification (even more so then Mathews Jr.)

Ed Wade was ran outta town in Philly and I'm betting the house that the Astros are much more likely to finish near the bottom of the division then the top. after all these win now moves.

http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2008/01/cash_vs_theo_vs.html

The analysis mentioned above was flawed at the time and still is today (here's one small example: Josh Beckett was acquired while Theo was in exhile, but I'd imagine your analysis gives him credit).

If you really think Minaya, Williams, Gillick, Towers, etc. are better GMs than Cashman, I think that says all we need to know about your credibility on this topic.

Ken Williams?????

I'd take a 6 pack of beer to be my GM then Williams.

Its one thing to put Cashman in the middle of the pack, granted, you don't like him but....

Williams in the top 15??????????????????

You won't find white sox fans doing that.

Steve, you have to back yourself up on this one, and I don't mean by linking to some 3 month old post.

What has Kenny Williams done? He won the WS a few years ago (just like Cash) because his starters got ridiculously hot at the right time (you said signing Contreras was a bad move for Cash, does that make it good one for KW?), and now his team is in the tank. They had the worst offense in baseball last year, and he traded one of their more reliable arms to fill a position they already had filled. They have no farm system, so they won't be able to make trades during the season, or even plug holes when people get hurt/suck this year. Kenny Williams doesn't deserve to be mentioned on a list of the best GM's, even if it ran 25 deep.

Omar Minaya has a knack for making the wrong move at the wrong time. Brian Bannister for Ambiriox Burgos was a laughable move that came back to haunt them when they had guys like Phil Humber and Dave Williams making big starts for them down the stretch. Matt Lindstrom and Henry Owens for Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick was another gem; funny how the Mets' were scrambling for relievers late last year. The Milledge trade was a joke, not only because he got nothing decent in return, but because he traded him within the division.

If you're going to say Omar's a good GM because of the Santana trade, then you have to say Cash is a good GM because of the A-Rod move. Same kinda situation.

Just a thought on Kenny Williams. He built a team that went on to win a World Series – by himself. The teams that won rings for Cashman had a core of players that came from the G.M. before him. Those teams died out after 2001. Since 2002, when the team has mostly been the product of Cashman, there have been no rings. So, in terms of “my rings” the score is Williams 1, Cashman 0.

***He built a team that went on to win a World Series – by himself.***

The Buehrle (1998), Garland (1998), Konerko (1998), Rowand (1998) and Crede (1996)acquisitions all predate Kenny Williams stint as GM. So much for that theory.

Mike, I think that Kenny's boys, Jermaine Dye, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, Luis Vizcaino, Cliff Politte, Neal Cotts, Dustin Hermanson and Bobby Jenks had a pretty big hand in that ring too.

So KW is one of the best GM's because he inherited a core and built around it, but not Cash?

Check out the RSAA and RCAA totals for the "core" that KW took over - they're not all the "winners" (in 2005 at least) that you paint them to be...