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January 14, 2008

Rosenthal: Jays Could Finish Above Yanks

I heard Ken Rosenthal talking about the Toronto Blue Jays today during "Baseball This Morning" on XM Satellite Radio.

Ken said that the Jays “had a chance” but “not a great chance” to “finish above the Yankees in the standings this year.” He was not talking about Toronto finishing in first place. So, basically, what he was saying here is that the Yankees have a chance (albeit, in his estimation, not a huge chance) to finish third in the A.L. East in 2008. (I assume third since I can’t imagine anyone, today, picking the O’s or Rays to pass the Yankees in the final standings.)

So, Yankees fans, how do you feel about this? Related, if it comes true, and the Yankees do finish in third place this season, what kind of grade would you assign to the Yankees for 2008?

Me? I guess I would have to say, now, that I would not be shocked if the Yankees finished third this year – I can see their bullpen and the question marks in their rotation being a potential downfall. But, part of me still thinks that Joe Girardi will find a way to make the Yankees into a team that will win 90+ games this season. As far as a final grade, if the Yankees are the third best team in the East this season, I dunno? It would not be an “A” or a “B” – for sure. Their win total would dictate whether it’s an “F” or a “D” – so, for now, I would offer that a third place finish, at best, means the team would earn a “C” (from me) – and maybe lower.

Posted by Steve Lombardi at January 14, 2008 10:16 AM

Comments

Okay?

Ken Rosenthal says a lot of things. Most of them are bullshit. The Jays have zero chance, with that pathetic offense, to finish above the Yankees. AJ Burnett is still a humongous injury risk, and you really think Dustin McGowan has the ability to pick up the slack? Nevermind that their bullpen isn't really any better than the Yankees', and they're more likely to finish 4th behind the Devil Rays than 2nd above the Yankees.

Frankly, I'm glad the Yankees are being continually underrated and counted out. Makes it that much nicer when they reach 93+ wins yet again.

Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 10:28 AM

Well, I shouldn't say that about their bullpen. It was darn good last season. And yet, they still finished with 83 wins. Now that Troy Glaus is gone, it makes them even worse. The only way the Jays have gone this offseason is down. Rosenthal is basically saying the Yankees have a chance to finish with 82 wins. Woopdeedoo, so does everyone.

Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 10:30 AM

Highly doubtful imo as Toronto will not pitch as well and the Yankees not as poorly. Toronto starters pitched about 80 innings more and the Yankees relievers had to pitch 80 innings more. With the young Yankees starters pitching more innings and a better pen that does not walk batter the Yankees will be easily better.

Also if Girardi managed last year the extra 80 innings the pen pitched would have been divided up between Britton and Ramirez where as Torre ignored them.

Posted by: dan l [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 12:24 PM

One time, this other guy on some sports radio show said that Derek Jeter was gay. How do you feel if that's true. Another time, some baseball player said that there were no such things as dinosaurs. How do you feel about that?

Lots of people say lots of speculative things. Here's how I feel about all of them, let's see what the evidence says, then I'll start worrying about it.

Posted by: SteveB [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 12:45 PM

If, as is now being reported by ESPN, the Yankees have again pulled their offer for Santana (and Hank sticks to that position), the Yankees will have less expectations and be under less pressure than have been since 1996, yet they have more than enough talent to win the WS.

So let the media predict whatever they want. The present and the future are so bright, you gotta wear shades.

Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 01:09 PM

Frankly, I'm glad the Yankees are being continually underrated and counted out. Makes it that much nicer when they reach 93+ wins yet again.
**********************8

By the same token, an 86 win season and third place finish will be just as nice.

Why exactly is it assumed that the Blue Jay starters will be worse while the Yankee starters will inevitably improve? The fact is that the young Jays pitchers SHOWED that they can compete in the AL East. Just because the Yankee prospects are uber-hailed doesn't make them better, or less likely to have growing pains. If Burnett and Holiday stay healthy, there is no reason why the Blue Jay rotation won't be as good next year, and if BJ Ryan is healthy, the bullpen will be at least as good (assuming that some of their middle relievers regress).

Glaus being gone hurts them? Have you taken a look at Scott Rolen ever? If Rolen regains his power stroke, he's better than Glaus. If he only gets his average back up, he's better than Glaus. Every time he takes the field, he's better than Glaus.

Reasons why the Yankees could finish behind the Jays:
Piss-poor set-up men
age catching up to Pettitte, Mussina, Matsui
continued suckiness of Damon and Giambi
growing pains for the youngsters - or simply pitch limits + bad setup men

You don't think the Yankees are due for a bad season? You're sure the "can't miss" pitchers will be instant stars?

If you can't see ANY chance for the Blue Jays to slip ahead, how do you drive with pinstripe glasses?

Posted by: DanTheRedSoxMan [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:10 PM

So basically, if all goes right for the Jays, and if all goes wrong for the Yankees, the Jays have a shot of finishing ahead.

Yeah, that's reasonable. By that reasoning, the Rays could win the World Series. Nice to see how 'the other side' thinks.

Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:17 PM

I had hoped Dan would get run over by some drunk Pats fan celebrating their win. Didn't happen.

Anyway, if Ken -- who does talk a lot of BS and sure loves to kill the Yankees -- actually said "the Jays have a chance, but not a great chance, to finish above the Yankees in the standings this year" -- well, brave prognosticator he! That statement is meaningless. It's like if I said, "I have a chance, but not a great chance, to marry a supermodel." If you qualify a chance by saying it's not a great chance -- that it probably won't happen -- then you can apply it to anything.

So big deal. The Rays have a chance, but not a great chance, of winning 85 games. The Marlins have a chance, but not a great chance, of winning the World Series. Rosenthal has a chance, but not a great chance, of not looking like a total dweeb when he hunkers down in the camera well on Fox games.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:19 PM

I can see the BJ's finishing ahead of the Sox, but not the Yankees.

Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 06:54 PM

This is oh so charming. I'm glad there are at least a few people making sense. Or at least paying attention to other teams. The departure of Glaus will hardly make the Jays hit worse. Fact is, Glaus was redundant because almost all the Jays kill lefties. Rolen is better against right-handed pitching, so he gives the lineup better balance-- and with the groundball pitchers the Jays have, his D will be huge.

It would be shocking if Wells and Overbay didn't rebound from their injuries, and Thomas would be hard pressed to be as bad in the first half as he was in '07. Oh yes, they'll be better.

And please realize that the hype deficit between the Jays' young players and the Sox and Yankees is monumental. People would be going nuts for Toronto's young talent if those guys were playing down there.

Anyway, I'm not saying that I think the Jays will finish ahead of the Yankees. I pretty much don't. But the thought of it is hardly a joke.

Posted by: stoeten [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 09:06 PM

Anyway, I'm not saying that I think the Jays will finish ahead of the Yankees. I pretty much don't. But the thought of it is hardly a joke.
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Of course, they've been saying the same things about the Jays for years, it's only a matter of time before it happens...

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 15, 2008 10:45 AM

Okay?

Ken Rosenthal says a lot of things. Most of them are bullshit. The Jays have zero chance, with that pathetic offense, to finish above the Yankees. AJ Burnett is still a humongous injury risk, and you really think Dustin McGowan has the ability to pick up the slack? Nevermind that their bullpen isn't really any better than the Yankees', and they're more likely to finish 4th behind the Devil Rays than 2nd above the Yankees.Quote
This explanation is strange.The Jays had the second best ERA in the AL after the Red Sox in the second half of the season last year.The Jays bullpen is FAR superior to the Yankees right now!PERIOD!The Jays lost their closer and plugged in Accardo,if the Yankees lose Mariano who gets plugged in.......Ramirez?!!?!Their bridge to Accardo/Ryan crushes the Yankees right now.Look,Doc,AJ,Mac,Litsch and Marcum are a better 1-5 than what the Yankees have,you could see what they did in the second half of last year.The problem with the Yankee young three(who I have high hopes for)is that they are not proven yet.In reserve,the Jays have Janssen AND Chacin(who was their number 3) ,the Yankees have Igawa and Mussina who don't really inspire confidence.About AJ, this is his walk year.so don't be surprised if he actually manages to start more than 30 games this year!Yeah,I know it sounds impossible but guess what,he could make over 16 million and more on the open market so that might be an incentive($ always is). Several of the Jays had off years,but they will look to rebound this upcoming season.With the addition of Eckstein,a tiny spark plug has been added to the team.Remember,he has been on two World Series winners in the last five years.In addition,the Rolen/Glaus trade was a wash because Rolen will present much better defense with decent numbers but much less pop.Don't be surprised if the Jays come in second,because their strength(middle relief and 3-5 of their rotation) is the Yankee's 2008 major unknown/weakness.

Posted by: butchie22 [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 16, 2008 11:12 AM