WasWatching.com

What's your source for saying that Oppenheimer and Garrett have "complete autonomy"? I'm not debating that fact yet, but I'd like to see something to back it up.

agree, Ben.

and not for nothing, but this is how it works with any major corporation, not just the Yankees and their GM...

you've got the lower level workers who do the labor, bust their asses to do the grunt work, and the upper level administration who basically manage over their individual projects, and make sure that everything is getting done correctly and efficiently. when something is broken, they implement new policies and take a step back to see if it works... when it doesnt, they come up with a new plan.

isnt that what's going on here?

So, then, you would agree that Theo Epstein deserves none of the credit for Beckett, or any of the recent drafted prospects like Buchholz, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, etc? What, then, is he doing differently than Cashman? And is the only reason he should keep his job is because he was lucky enough to have most everything work out for him in 2007, despite the failures of Drew and Lugo, which were pretty much his big contribution to the team?

Frankly, you're running around in circles like a chicken with its head cut off, trying to divert ANY real credit for Cashman. I know you would love to have him gone, for some reason I really don't understand, but please explain to me the difference between Cashman, a 'bum' GM by your standards, and Epstein, which I can only think you hold in extremely high esteem.

~~~What's your source for saying that Oppenheimer and Garrett have "complete autonomy"? I'm not debating that fact yet, but I'd like to see something to back it up.~~~

Here's one source on Damon Oppenheimer:

http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2007/08/damon_oppenheim_1.html

"One of Cashman's best decisions -- way before the Joba Rules -- was to give Tampa-based Damon Oppenheimer complete autonomy over the amateur draft, which resulted in an '06 bonanza, as Chamberlain came 20 picks after USC product Kennedy arrived."

and, here's another source on Lin Garrett:

http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2006/07/what_no_shakira.html

"The Yanks went for quality and quantity when the July 2 international signing date arrived. Not only have the Yankees signed catcher Jesus Montero for a reported $2 million bonus (Yankees international scouting director Lin Garrett declined to comment on signing terms), but they have signed eight players total, three from Venezuela and five from the Dominican Republic. And Garrett said he hopes the organization is not done yet, as general manager Brian Cashman authorized the international scouting department to be aggressive this summer."

Why stop at Oppenheimer and Garrett? What about the lowly area scouts who drive across the country and sit through 2 high school games during the day and a college game at night to watch these kids? They're the ones who recommend the players to Oppenheimer and Garrett, they're the ones risking their reputation everytime they pick a player. All Oppenheimer and Garrett do is follow their advice, and all Cashman does is follow their advice.

A GM, scouting director, etc is only as good as the people working for him. Cashman absolutely deserves a piece of the credit for Joba, Hughes, Montero, Tabata, etc, but just a piece. Ditto Oppenheimer and Garrett. It's the scouts behind the scenes that deserve most of the credit.

Steve, I know something about running a business and if the buck stops at the VP's desk, then he deserves the credit or the fault. Let's turn it around. Suppose those guys that went looking for pumpkins screwed up and landed bad pumpkins. The VP is the one who will ultimately take the grief for giving them the task. So, if it works, he gets credit...if it fails, he gets the blame. A good VP will let credit stream down to the guys that got it done. Give credit to Cash for understanding that there are guys better suited than him to go find those pumpkins and for letting them loose, knowing if the pumkins were rotten he'd take the arrows.

~~~So, then, you would agree that Theo Epstein deserves none of the credit for Beckett, or any of the recent drafted prospects like Buchholz, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, etc? What, then, is he doing differently than Cashman? ~~~

I can't say that Epstein is not running the draft and signings for the Sox - and, I never claimed that he was or was not. I'm only talking about the Yankees here.

I would just like to know the difference between Brian Cashman and any other GM in baseball. No GM, except perhaps Billy Beane, make the picks. The guy overseeing the draft for the Sox is some guy named McClaude, or something. If anything, the most a GM does is set a general tone for the draft, and work out deals for the players.

~~~It's the scouts behind the scenes that deserve most of the credit. ~~~

Somewhat, but, don't Oppenheimer & Garrett have to read the reports from the scouts and then make the final yes or no call? The buck stops with them.

Also, Garrett was fired from his position of VP of Int'l Scouting over a year ago. I believe he's still with the team in some capacity though. I don't have time to verify this, so feel free to correct me.

~~~The VP is the one who will ultimately take the grief for giving them the task. So, if it works, he gets credit...if it fails, he gets the blame. ~~~~

In the case of the Yankees, will he get the blame?

If so, then why has Cashman not taken the blame for Andy Brown, Drew Henson, David Walling, David Parrish, John-Ford Griffin, Brandon Weeden and Eric Duncan?

It is a first principle about any business that the key to being a successful executive is to hire, retain, and supervise talented people. As such, to discount Cashman's role in this process runs to counter to everything ever taught in both Business Management 101 courses and higher level management courses taught in B School.

~~~Also, Garrett was fired from his position of VP of Int'l Scouting over a year ago. I believe he's still with the team in some capacity though. I don't have time to verify this, so feel free to correct me.~~~

FWIW, Garrett was signing players as late as the summer of 2006. So, if any of the players in the system, from Latin America, do well, they were under his watch.

~~~It is a first principle about any business that the key to being a successful executive is to hire, retain, and supervise talented people.~~~

And, for that, I'm willing to credit Cashman. But, I can't give him credit for retooling the team - since he's not the one picking the players that everyone says will carry the Yankees in the future.

I actually wonder if anyone knows whether Cashman was the person who gave the ok to sign drafted players to over slot bonus money. I have had the feeling over the past few years that Cashman has been handicapping himself, trying to save money rather than using the powerful financial resources of the Yankees. It appears to me almost as if he is trying to prove to the rest of the baseball world that he can win without using the Yankee money. So I am not certain whether we can even give credit to Cashamn for signing the drafted players.

"And, for that, I'm willing to credit Cashman. But, I can't give him credit for retooling the team - since he's not the one picking the players that everyone says will carry the Yankees in the future."
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Cash himself has admitted that talent evaluation is not one of his strengths, but as long his plan yields positive results, does it really matter that he is responsible for implementing an overarching plan as opposed to micromanaging every aspect of a GM's job?

For example, it was Cashman's decision to place an emphasis on allocating more resources toward drafting high ceiling players with signability issues. But he understood that Oppenheimer was better suited to select which players the money should be spent on.

That seems to be a case study for how a good organization should be run.

I happen to agree with Steve on a good amount of this....I guess I am the only one here who does..

I was going to elaborate on my point of view but Rich beat me to the punch by 2 minutes. I agree with his analysis of the situation. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and should have a job curtailed to those.

For instance (i think i remember him saying it once) but Steve has a job in HR, (correct me if I am wrong) which obviously suits a strength because he obviously can write well; hence he has a blog.

Cash's strengths it seems is dealing with different personalities and having the ability to (when in complete control) not making a panic move. Talent evaluation on the other hand... goes to Opp... since we know nothing about the man.. its hard to evaluate Opp's ability to manage people. It really goes both ways.. and I think this really is an interesting argument dealing with the future of the Yankees.

If so, then why has Cashman not taken the blame for Andy Brown, Drew Henson, David Walling, David Parrish, John-Ford Griffin, Brandon Weeden and Eric Duncan?
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Depends on the circumstances. If the Yanks were below average on the number of players that have made it to the show, then there may be something there.

Whose to say that he hasn't caught heat for guys not making it? Or the guys below him haven't caught heat?

FWIW, Griffin & Weeden were traded, I don't know if you should count them. I'm not ready to give up on Eric Duncan yet.

There is a lot going on, and while I agree with your general premise, that really isn't the way things work in the real world (which you mentioned).

All I know is that this is the first time the Yanks haven't finished in 1st place in 10 years. They must be doing something right. Whether Cashman, Oppenheimer, or Garrett gets the credit doesn't really matter, as when it's all said and done, it's Cashman that's answering the questions.

~~~Cash himself has admitted that talent evaluation is not one of his strengths, but as long his plan yields positive results, does it really matter that he is responsible for implementing an overarching plan as opposed to micromanaging every aspect of a GM's job? ~~~

It only matters in the sense that he (Cashman) is being branded the "savior" when he's not really the one with the brains behind the moves - and, more so, he's just overseeing those who are really, reportedly, saving the team thru the draft and Latin America.

~~~ I have had the feeling over the past few years that Cashman has been handicapping himself, trying to save money rather than using the powerful financial resources of the Yankees. It appears to me almost as if he is trying to prove to the rest of the baseball world that he can win without using the Yankee money. So I am not certain whether we can even give credit to Cashamn for signing the drafted players.~~~

FWIW, Hank Stein has said in the past that Cashman is very tight with their money - as if it was his own - more so than they probably would be.

Reading this post and the comments reminds me of that scene in the movie Office Space where the 2 Bobs are questioning the employee what he does at the company. I can see it now. Cash sitting across the Stien Bros. them asking him "What would you say you do here?, Cash frantically trying to explain his job finally screaming out "But I have people skills" classic

here is a clip of that scene from the movie.

http://tinyurl.com/yu34nw

I have had the feeling over the past few years that Cashman has been handicapping himself, trying to save money rather than using the powerful financial resources of the Yankees.
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I don't think it's so much a handicap as realizing there are other alternatives to throwing $$ at free agents.

We have to see how the $$ is spent. I would rather the $$ go towards beefing up the scouting dept, for example, than going to Loria, Pohlad & Co in luxury tax payouts.

Something else that should be noted is that teams have succeeded with less $$, so a high payroll does not necessarily guarantee success.

"It only matters in the sense that he (Cashman) is being branded the "savior" when he's not really the one with the brains behind the moves - and, more so, he's just overseeing those who are really, reportedly, saving the team thru the draft and Latin America."
___

I certainly wouldn't call him a savior, but I do think that he is more than just an overseer.

I view him as bright GM who has the correct vision on how to build a team, which is why I think the Yankees are fortunate to have him.

That said, Oppenheimer, Newman, and others have also been integral to implementing Cashman's plan, and I would hope that Cash does what it takes to retain them.

Perhaps more importantly, I hope that Hank and Hal confine their roles to finding new revenue streams and setting budgets, and allow the baseball people to make baseball decisions.

Damn, man. This is a piss poor way to destroy a pretty good blog. LIke all obsessions, it probably sounds better rattling around inside your head, but on paper -- sorry, on the screen -- it's just short of embarrassing. Ah, hell. It's pretty much embarrassing. Also jejune, high schooly, and thinwitted.

Please, for the love of all things baseball, give it up.

It is nonsensical to deny Cashman credit for outlining a plan and then hiring and empowering qualified individuals to carry it out. Also, as this NYT article from 6/7/2006 shows, Cashman is not divorced from the draft process.

In a sign of his growing power within the organization — and of perhaps greater harmony between the New York and Tampa, Fla., factions of management — General Manager Brian Cashman assisted with the draft for the first time.
"It was a great help and great teamwork," Oppenheimer said. "I'm really pumped about that."

We all know how well the 2006 draft went, so if Cashman contributed anything, it had to be positive. Also, as others have pointed out, Oppenheimer is the Scouting Director, but that doesn’t mean he does all the scouting. Below Oppenheimer is a team of scouts who also deserve their share of credit. Like any large organization, credit and blame starts at the top and filters down.

There is no objective or reasonable way to deny Cashman credit for the renaissance in the Yankees farm system. It is a very large feather in his cap.

I read this blog, despite the fact that I disagree with almost everything written in it, because every day, it reaches deeper and deeper depths of ridiculousness.

And if we follow this nonsense to the logical extreme, Cashman, and Oppenheimer and Garrett can all suck it, the only ones who deserve credit ever are the players. Or like, the universe or something.

Steve, do you think you're going to somehow make a name for yourself by constantly ripping the "establishment?"

That is seriously they only reason I can think of for your constant Cashman, Hughes, A-Rod, Giambi, Jeter, etc. bashing.

~~~Steve, do you think you're going to somehow make a name for yourself by constantly ripping the "establishment?" ~~~

No more so than you would make a name for yourself by constantly ripping me.

Touche'! It's true that I frequently rip you, however I hide behind an abbreviation, I don't have my own blog, and my arguments are off the cuff and not well thought out. If I were trying to make a name for myself, it would be a pretty bad effort.

I don't rip you because I'm trying to get attention, I rip you because I take issue with a lot of your extreme stances on things. I think you let your personal opinions of people cloud your evaluation of their work. And I think you do it to get a rise out of people and keep readers engaged in this blog. If that's your strategy, it works, congratulations!

What was it that people used to say about Cosell? Love him, or hate him, people still listen to him. {wink}

Extreme stances are much better than just riding the fence, no?

For their provocative value, yes.