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The Twins have every right to play Hank and the Yankees. It's what you're supposed to do when you're making a trade. It's the job of the Yankees not to fall for for it and they did. I think Hank sounds like an angry gambler bitching about losing all his money in a casino -- hey, no one told you to lose all your money; you just couldn't help yourself.

This whole deal seems inflexible now. Since Hughes is in the deal, it seems like he can't be taken out of it. So the end result is either Hughes stays or Hughes goes. I wonder why a larger deal was not discussed, with Melky and an assortment of other good prospects -- Horne, Tabata, etc. -- going to the Twins. In other words, take away the one star (Hughes) and replace him with a quantity of players the Twins are supposedly interested in.

There's something else to think about here: if this deal falls apart, there's going to be immense pressure on Hughes and Kennedy to pitch well in '08. If they falter, they will hear: "We didn't get Santana for THIS?!"

The Yankees could learn a little something from the Sox. They drew a hard line from the beginning: you can have one top guy, but not another. You can have Ellsbury, but not Lester. They've been firm from the get-go. The Yankees bent right away.

Anyway, if I was a betting man, I would say the Twins take the Yankees' deal because while they might like Ellsbury most of all, they need a pitcher in the rotation next year and they're not taking Lester over Hughes.

Can someone remind me of some comments the Twins's FO made about wanting to play the Yankees in the 06 ALDS? That story combined with this whole situation, it makes me really dislike Twins ownership. The Twins receive a lot of money from teams like the Yankees and Red Sox in revenue sharing, and then instead of spending it on their own players when they reach FA, they decide to pit the two teams that are lining the owners pockets against each other in trade negotations.

I'm not saying the Twins aren't justified in being shrewd while trading Santana, but either spare us the underhandedness or the holier-than-thou comments when you're called out on it.

One thing I'd like to see is for Hankboy to just shut up. I think it was not 24 hours before he sat down with The News that he promised he was done talking to the media.

I love it - you can just see this guy in a meeting with Girardi, ordering him to throw at Ortiz & Manny too.

I love it - you can just see this guy in a meeting with Girardi, ordering him to throw at Ortiz & Manny too.
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If Hank is in pitchers' meetings and making demands that his pitchers throw at someone, we're truly f----d.

>> If Hank is in pitchers' meetings and making demands that his pitchers throw at someone, we're truly f----d. >>

FWIW, I didn't seriously think he'd be doing that. He just seems like the type.

>> I think Hank sounds like an angry gambler bitching about losing all his money in a casino -- hey, no one told you to lose all your money; you just couldn't help yourself. >>

More like he sounds like a guy trying to do what's best for his team - present and future. If he bitched about the trade after the fact, then you could probably make that comparison.

Personally I like the hard-line approach - Hank's playing the part of Howie Mandel (or is it the banker?), and the Twins had better decide if they want to keep the briefcase they were given...

Pete, Hank already caved when he offered Hughes before he had to. When the Yankees offered Hughes, the Sox were still stuck on Ellsbury OR Lester. With only one of those guys included, you could make the case that Kennedy/Melky/Tabata-Horne-something decent was a better deal. But Hank jumped the gun and put Hughes in the deal. He allowed the Twins to play him by saying the Sox were about to get Santana, even though the Sox had not moved off their offer. The Yankees were improving their deal while the Sox were waiting them out.

Hank setting this hard-line stance now, through the media, is only because of how he handled the negotiations to begin with.

The idea that Hank's words can constitute tampering is laughable.

>> Pete, Hank already caved when he offered Hughes before he had to >>

So you honestly thought we were getting Santana *without* giving up Hughes? If Kennedy was the centerpiece of the deal, we'd be giving up about 5 or 6 other prospects — plus Melky — to appease the Twins. Then that would *really* be mortgaging the future...

He's taking the hardline stance on the Yankees' best offer. Nothing wrong (or hypocritical) about that at all, IMO.

The offer isn't going to change or get any better on NY's part, so how much time were we supposed to give the Twins to mull this over, or how many times were they going to run back to Boston & up the ante?

Yea, its tampering.

But its weak as a charge, and MLB isn't going to do anything about it.

But Santana has the message, Hank WILL move to sign him as a free agent.

So you honestly thought we were getting Santana *without* giving up Hughes? If Kennedy was the centerpiece of the deal, we'd be giving up about 5 or 6 other prospects — plus Melky — to appease the Twins. Then that would *really* be mortgaging the future...
He's taking the hardline stance on the Yankees' best offer. Nothing wrong (or hypocritical) about that at all, IMO.
The offer isn't going to change or get any better on NY's part, so how much time were we supposed to give the Twins to mull this over, or how many times were they going to run back to Boston & up the ante?"

Let me spell it out further: IT'S OKAY IF YOU WANT TO GIVE UP HUGHES, BUT THEY DIDN'T NEED TO GUARANTEE HIM IN THE DEAL WHEN THEY DID. Okay? At that time, they still had the best offer WITHOUT Hughes. Just because the Twins demanded him doesn't mean you have to cave. The Yankees should have kept Hughes out of the deal until the last minute and used him as a trump card. He should have been the player that put them above any offer the Red Sox had. But they didn't do that. They got panicky and inserted him in the deal and then the Twins wanted more. It's basic negotiating. You hold onto your best chip until it's the breaking point.

I never called Hank a hypocrite. I just think he's trying to cover himself with this deadline, which is ridiculous. Setting a deadline works against the Yankees' interests. If the Yankees want to show any integrity, they have to walk away after today. What the Yankees should have simply said was: "This is our best offer -- take it or leave it." (While simultaneously looking elsewhere at Haren and Bedard.) Setting a date in which the Twins had to accept the offer hurts the Yankees, in my estimation, because it gives the Red Sox the leverage of being the last team standing.

Making Kennedy the centerpiece and giving up five players (including him) is not nearly as bad as giving up Hughes. I don't think losing Kennedy, Melky and Horne is the end of the world. I know people are high on Horne, and he's good, but he has red flags, too. Losing Tabata would have been tough, but the loss is softened by the fact that Austin Jackson looks even better. The fifth player would have been Alberto Gonzalez or someone like that. Big deal. So you end up giving up two good but not great pitchers, an outfielder, and someone who would never have made the team (Gonzalez). Tabata would be tough to lose, but the Twins have to get something exciting back. I'd take that deal in a second over the one they're giving today.

>> Let me spell it out further: IT'S OKAY IF YOU WANT TO GIVE UP HUGHES, BUT THEY DIDN'T NEED TO GUARANTEE HIM IN THE DEAL WHEN THEY DID. Okay? At that time, they still had the best offer WITHOUT Hughes. >>

Sorry, didn't know you were actually SITTING AT THE TABLE when they negotiated the deal. :-P

Sarcasm aside, do you have any clue how many times the two teams went back and forth? Maybe Kennedy was the centerpiece on 4 or 5 different packages before the Yanks included Hughes - we just don't know for sure.

The way it *appeared* to be play out, Minnesota wasn't going to talk any more unless Phil was in there, so the Yanks finally relented. Santana's definitely worth the cost, but 8 other guys from the minors not named 'Hughes' weren't going to get it done.

And how exactly is that the better deal between them and the Sox when the Sox were actually offering more game-tested players in their package?

>> I never called Hank a hypocrite. I just think he's trying to cover himself with this deadline, which is ridiculous. If the Yankees want to show any integrity, they have to walk away after today.>>

Umm, call me crazy but isn't that what the deadline is all about? 'Walking away' after today?

>> Losing Tabata would have been tough, but the loss is softened by the fact that Austin Jackson looks even better. >>

By your logic, perhaps the Yanks aren't as high on Hughes as they once were - there could be someone right behind him with even more potential. After all, did you even *know* the name 'Joba Chamberlain' before this past year?