WasWatching.com

If you did a survey of the people who listen to the Yankees broadcasts (or any team's broadcasts), I would guess that the vast majority would want someone who is, to some extent, a homer. "Professionalism" in this context is over-rated. Waldman is, no doubt, a "homer" and, given that the Torre era is probably over and that beloved Yankees like Rivera and Posada may not be back, I don't begrudge her her tears at all.

I don't lump Waldman in with Kay. Kay has an insufferable smugness about himself that Waldman lacks.

You know, I'm a little confused by this... on the one hand, I feel it's kind of unprofessional (though, let's be honest, she's a friggin' baseball broadcaster, not Brian Williams), but on the other I think, "What's wrong with showing your emotions and being honest?"

It's just amazing to me she IS that upset. I know Torre is this avuncular charmer with everyone and they all love him, but he's not being taken out back to the shed to have his brains blown out. He'll be home with his wife and kid and his multiple millions. Life will move on.

Torre and his defenders (and there are a shocking amount of them) really no longer have a leg to stand on. This team has been regressing year by year. They've taken one step back (WS loss, a collapse in the ALCS, three first-round bounces, a wild card win instead of the division) the last four years. Within those steps back Torre has made some questionable moves. In any case, the team needs a new manager so it can truly feel like it's refreshing itself.

And not to kick a man when he's down, but I hope Torre takes Guidry with him. Though I would love for Pena and Bowa to stick around.

As long as Chip Caray isn't brought in. He's gawdawful.

And not to kick a man when he's down, but I hope Torre takes Guidry with him. Though I would love for Pena and Bowa to stick around.

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/agreed

I think it's more important to have a pitching coach who can really help the teams pitchers with their mechanics rather then have a pitching coach who can teach your pitchers a slider...we get it, it didn't work, we're done with it. I sometimes got the feeling that Wang was messing around with the slider too much. Where's Mel?

Mel? He was the king of the 2-strike slider that was supposed to get the batter to roll his hands over on it and hit a weak grounder but would invariably end up 10 rows back in the bleachers because...surprise...not every pitcher throws a good, sharp-breaking slider. Let's get a real pitching coach in here who can diagnose mechanical problems and (as Jim Kaat would say) teach to-and-fro instead of side-to-side. Loved it when Kitty would remind viewers that the most effective pitchers in modern baseball change speeds rather than throw to spots. Disrupting timing is more valuable against today's souped up hitters with plastic man reach than "keeping the ball down" or "throwing inside."

I totally agree about Guidry. How many times this year have we heard about X or Y fixing a mechanical flaw or have a good side session etc. only to see them get shellacked in their next outing? Edwar comes to mind. What's Mazzone still doing in Baltimore now that the buddy who he went to go be there with has been canned (I don't even remember the guy's name)? Let's get that fidgety genius out here and have him fix some things. Or at least get someone with a track record with some positive recent results.

I like Mazzone but we don't need him specifically. He's had two years to work on Daniel Cabrera and the kid still can't throw two strikes in a row to save his life. Outside of Bedard, who was well on his way anyway, the O's pitching staff is more or less an abomination.

How about Dave Eiland?

As I posted in the past, Dave is definitely my choice for the next pitching coach. He's been with Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy in the minors and they are the future foundation of this team.

I like Suzyn Waldman a lot. I like that she's a homer. Steve, we both loved Phil. Talk about homers! That's one of the reasons I liked him so much.

Phil would've cried, too. The coaches sat in Joe's office, watched Joe's press conference and cried doing so. There IS crying in baseball!

I love Joe, Mo, Andy and Jorge. I don't want to see any of them go. I think all of them have more to contribute to the Yanks and all given me many years of the best baseball I've seen in my almost 50 yr's of watching.

Steve--Give Suzyn a break. So what if she's a homer. I'm not looking for my Yankee radio and TV people to be Edward R. Murrow.

baileywalk--"Regressing year by year?" Come on. The playoffs (especially a five game series) are a crapshoot. Joe did a terrific job this year. In anywhere but Steinbrenner's bizarre universe, he's resigned in a heartbeat. Nobody on earth could have managed this team in this city any better.

For those of us who had to endure the 1980's and early 1990's, we know things can be a LOT worse than they are today. The "Get Rid of Joe" crowd now pining for the tremendous managerial talents of a Mattingly, Girardi, or La Russa should be careful for what they wish for.

Amen redbug. I love the fact that Suzyn cried, the coaches cried, Joe cried, the players cried. That's what makes the organization so great: They have so many people who really give a shit.

What would a Met fan have given to watch any of their players or coaches be one-tenth as emotional after blowing the division in historic fashion? Did anyone listen to Tom Glavine after his performance? He sounded a little bummed--like he just got a flat tire or something.

~~~Phil would've cried, too.~~~

The game yesterday started at 7:30 pm ET and was over at 11:41 pm. Scooter would have been home by 10:30 pm, tops.

{wink}

Little add-on, from the Times today:

Suzyn Waldman was unapologetic yesterday for choking up and sobbing briefly in her report Monday night on WCBS-AM after the Indians knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs. “That’s who I am,” she said by telephone. “It’s unusual, but not for me. I am emotional. I’m a conduit between the players and the fans, and everyone was crying.”

She added: “That’s what I felt. I am who I am. I’m emotional. A lot of people like it, a lot of people don’t. I didn’t do it in a game, and I recovered.”

baileywalk--"Regressing year by year?" Come on. The playoffs (especially a five game series) are a crapshoot. Joe did a terrific job this year. In anywhere but Steinbrenner's bizarre universe, he's resigned in a heartbeat. Nobody on earth could have managed this team in this city any better.
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Sorry, Joel, but --

2003: World Series loss.
2004: ALCS loss in seven games (a historic and embarrassing collapse).
2005: ALDS loss in five games.
2006: ALDS loss in four games.
2007: doesn't win the division and an ALDS loss in four games.

What part of that is NOT a "year by year regression"? It is by definition a regression -- a steady decline in performance each year.

Frankly, I'm sick of all the commentators saying "Joe Torre doesn't deserve this when *all he's done in New York is win*." What team have they been watching? In his tenure, Torre has been to the playoffs each year and won four titles. That sounds pretty good, but the four rings came in the first five years. He hasn't done a thing in the last four years.

If you spent 180+ for the last five years, and in that time you got a historic collapse and three first-round bounces, would you still employ your manager?

People say Big Stein is a jerk, but he's stayed quiet for a long time and kept Joe around longer than he should have. If anything, Big Stein has taken it easy on Torre.

The truth is, if this wasn't Torre, it would have been an automatic to fire him last year, and no one would be defending him now.

They don't pay him seven million bucks and spend 190 million dollars to pat him on the back for bringing the team back from a lousy start.

You have to be kidding me. The Yankee broadcasters are a joke. Waldman with the "Roguh Clemens is in George's booth..This is the most incredble thing i have ever seen." Sterling is a buffoon. "It is high it is far...It is caught by the SS" "Giambino"

Kay is smug.

If you want to watch good objective baseball broadcastors, try the Mets broadcastors. Darling, Hernandez and Cohen are pros who are not afraid to critisize the home team. They did it during the whole collapse.

As for Kay his reaction has been worse than Waldman. He is acting like a spoiled Kindergaden kid. He keeps saying that the Yankees were a better team than Cleveland. Hugh.. Cleveland was clearly the better team. They had much better pitching. Wang is not nearly in the class of Colon, Carmona was able to outlast Pettite. Clemens pithced like a 44 year old. The Indians had a great lead-off hitter who got on base, they moved the runners up and have strong run producers in the middle. The Indians middle relief with Betancourt and Perez were better than Farnsworth and Joba. This is not fantasy baseball. The team with the best statsitics is not the best team.

Don't dis the Indians. They are a very good team, had a better record than the Yankees and play in a better division top to bottom.

It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you refer to C.C. Sabathia as Bartolo Colon, Eric.

But whatever.

I don't think the Indians were "better" than the Yanks -- I would say they were about evenly talented, with an edge in starting pitching going to the Indians (the bullpens are equal in my mind because Mo is light-years better than Borowski and Joba is as a good as Perez and Betancourt).

Also, Gary Cohen and Keith Hernandez aren't homers?! Whaaaaa? Are you serious? Big deal, they criticized the team while it was losing. Cohen also treats every hit and run like they won the World Series, and almost always implies the Mets beat themselves and not that the opposing team had anything to do with it. Hernandez, whose droning voice is really irritating, buries his nose up the ass of every Met player. Darling, on the other hand, is a solid, fair broadcaster.

When a game gets out of hand, Cohen and Hernandez act as though they are facing death, and eventually stop calling the game.

If you spent 180+ for the last five years, and in that time you got a historic collapse and three first-round bounces, would you still employ your manager?
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Sure, why not? What would any other manager have done?

What difference does it make how much they spent? Would the historic collapse and 3 first round bounces would have been better if the Yanks spent $80M instead of $180M?

~~~Phil would've cried, too.~~~

The game yesterday started at 7:30 pm ET and was over at 11:41 pm. Scooter would have been home by 10:30 pm, tops.

{wink}

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Right you are! What was I thinking? ButI'm sure tears would've spilt over his ziti and cannolis.

baileywalk--You and many others (including the brilliant Mike Lupica) have a ridiculous definition of "regression." By your definition it wouldn't have been regression if the Yanks lost Game 5 to Sabathia? Or lost to the Red Sox in in the ALCS 4 or 5 games? Because after all that was an improvement over 2006.

If anything this team progressed in significant ways this year, and the future going into 2008 is very bright. The Yanks have been rebuilding on the fly and Torre is the right guy to finish the job.

Not to mention the team has done a pretty good job of weathering the storm of injuries the past 4 years.

Okay, whatever, you guys can play whatever semantical games you want to defend Torre, but here's the bottom line: this team spends more than everyone else, puts itself in the position to win it all every year, and he hasn't delivered in seven years. And not only has he not delivered, but he's gotten embarrassed along the way.

Yes, Raf, without question it would be easier to stomach if the payroll was 80 million versus 180 million. That's the point. It's not like this is some scrappy team just happy to be there (a la this year D'Backs).

They paid Torre a lot of money to win. And he hasn't won in a long time. And this year his team couldn't even win the division.

What other manager of a high-profile, big-city baseball team could go this long without a playoff series victory without getting canned? As I said, if it wasn't Torre he would have been gone already and no one would have blinked.

Not to mention that many people put some of the losses squarely on Torre.

Also, Joel, please do no compare me to Mike Lupica, who I abhor.

I wonder exactly how the team is not regressing, though, when they continue to fall further back. They went from four WS appearances in a row to three first-round bounces in a row. It doesn't matter how many games it took to lose in the first round -- it's the fact that they can't even make it to the ALCS. Three straight years with this team and they can't even win a series.

This team IS now making a turnaround with its young players, and Torre has nothing to do with that and frankly many have said in the past that he's the last one you want managing Hughes and Joba. He has shown he doesn't really trust young players and he ruins arms.

Over the last few years this much is obvious: people can't stand the job Torre does during the year and they wish he was gone, but then his job is on the line and they get sentimental and defend him to their death. It's like a kid who ignores his pet and then wails when it died from his neglect. Let's leave the sentimentality behind.

Besides, considering what Torre brought to the table -- no true managerial philosophy, never really any inventive in-game decisions -- how hard will it be to replace him? Mattingly has that same calm demeanor and can deal with people; as far as I'm concerned, that's what made Joe good. The melodramatic press may state otherwise, but the team will make a smooth transition to another manager and life will quickly move on.

Okay, whatever, you guys can play whatever semantical games you want to defend Torre, but here's the bottom line: this team spends more than everyone else, puts itself in the position to win it all every year, and he hasn't delivered in seven years. And not only has he not delivered, but he's gotten embarrassed along the way.
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And the fault lies with the players, not the manager.

You watched the games. If you haven't, recaps are available via retrosheet or baseball-reference.

When someone tells him he is able to go, be it Cone, Rogers, Brown, or Clemens, he has to believe him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Wang was considered the "ace" of the staff, he shit the bed twice this series. Since 2001, there has been a disconnect between the offense, the defense, and the pitching.

I'm not a Torre fan, but blaming him for what has gone on for the past few years, is ludicrous. Especially in the context of the regular season. The pitching imploded (be it because of age, injury or ineffectiveness) in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. They've won 101, 95, 97 and 94 games those years. The only reason they didn't win the East this year was a because the Red Sox were hot all year. They have lost Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi for extended periods of time.

A bounce here or there, the postseasons could have turned out differently. But they didn't and it didn't. To lay the blame @ Torre's feet is ridiculous.

Moreover, Torre didn't spend $200+ million on free agent pitchers who didn't work out. If anything, his job was made even tougher having to work around their collective injuries and incompetence.

And although I loved Donnie Baseball as a player, what now makes him such a lock to be a great manager? Pete Abe has virtually annointed him The Chosen One. Exactly who is the next genius that the Yanks absolutely need to hire to replace a guy who made the playoffs 12 straight times?

suzyn waldman is a damn laughingstock right now. she is incredibly obnoxious and annoying, but we know this. can her ass but keep torre's!