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August 07, 2007

August 7th @ The Blue Jays

Interesting little game this evening in Toronto.

First, Joba. He's a wide-body, eh? From the back, he looks just like Clemens - as Rocket looks today. I was suprised to see him come back out for a second inning. I thought the Yankees were going to baby him? Chamberlain was nervous tonight - can you blame him? - but, he was impressive. Don't ask me why, but, as I watched Joba pitch tonight, I thought about Aurelio "Señor Smoke" Lopez and Juan Berenguer. I know that makes no sense - since Chamberlain is bigger and a better prospect than they were...still, the thought of Joba coming out of the pen, being a big boy, and pumping ninety-eight with that nasty slider coming too...well, let's just say that I "get it" as to why the Yankees are trying this move with him this season.

On to the game. The Blue Jays have to let it go. The "Ha!" game pissed them off - and I don't blame them. The goons at MLB told Toronto, when the Jays last came to New York, that they didn't want to see any fireworks in Yankee Stadium. So, Toronto had to bite down on it and do nothing - until last night when they threw behind A-Rod. That should have been the end of it. But, nooooooo...

The Jays had to go after Alex again tonight - which led to Clemens later nailing Rios. Roger will get a suspension out of this one - it's an automatic. That's too bad - with the Yankees schedule being so big this month.

And, I'm sure that some Red Sox fans probably noted Alex's lips getting a little purple as this game went on today. For those Yankees fans out there with friends in RSN, get prepared to receive an e-mail or two about how the team can thank "Slappy McBlue Lips" for costing the Yankees to have to screw with their rotation now - to cover for Clemens suspension.

Don't get me wrong. I love the hits, homers, RBI and all the VORP out the yin-yang that Alex provides - like in this season. But, there's a part of me that would be more than willing to punt some offense for a guy who just plays the game and saves the drama for his mamma.

Posted by Steve Lombardi at August 7, 2007 11:02 PM

Comments

Steve--You protect your superstar player. Period. The situation was settled yesterday as far as baseball etiquette is concerned. What Towers did was gratuitous--over the line. According to Suzyn Waldman our best player now has a noticeable limp and a "golfball size knot" in his leg. Clemens did the right thing. We'll see how see George's good friend Bud handles a suspension involving a first ballot hall-of-famer.

Also, if Gibbons ordered Towers to throw at A-Rod with a runner on third in a one-run game, he's a total schmuck. That easily could have been a wild pitch and another run for the Yanks.

Posted by: Joel [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 7, 2007 11:56 PM

bonds just broke the record...

Posted by: Corey [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 7, 2007 11:59 PM

The Yankees showed some heart and they played like a team and this is what you say:

~~~there's a part of me that would be more than willing to punt some offense for a guy who just plays the game and saves the drama for his mamma.~~~


I'm not even gonna say what I truly feel after reading this post, it's just not worth the energy.

Posted by: Garcia [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 12:13 AM

So Steve, you're a root for the production and not the person kind of guy?

You can't pin a Clemens suspension on A-Rod. Like Joel (and many others) said, this should have been over last night when they threw behind him (again, at his knee). Hitting him tonight because they missed last night was bullshit (take about bush league).

Any drama tonight was created by the Jays because they're apparently too childish to get over being embarrassed in a game that happened in May.

Steve, you keep denying that you don't hate A-Rod, but that you would even bring up that stupid nickname that RSN has for him really makes me wonder a bit.

Posted by: Jen [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 12:39 AM

~~~~Don't get me wrong. I love the hits, homers, RBI and all the VORP out the yin-yang that Alex provides - like in this season. But, there's a part of me that would be more than willing to punt some offense for a guy who just plays the game and saves the drama for his mamma.~~~

~~~noted Alex's lips getting a little purple as this game went on today~~~

Unreal.

Posted by: Tarnished [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 12:42 AM

Hey, where's baileywalk? I thought the jays would never remember?

Posted by: dan [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 12:45 AM

I wonder if Joe Torre will play Wilson Betemit (against RHP Halladay) and sit A-Rod with a "calf issue" tomorrow to quiet some of the fury between the two sides.

Posted by: SubwayHeroes [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 12:49 AM

The hatred for Alex on this blog is mind boggling. I don't think he's remotely perfect, and he sure does get anxious at times. But I know I can come here to get the most negative view of him on a consistent basis, no matter how well he's doing, short of visiting a Red Sox blog.

Posted by: Max [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 01:24 AM

Seriously, Steve? Seriously? Come on. What did you want Roger to do? Nothing? Haven't you complained in the past that Yankees pitchers like Moose do nothing? It might not have been you, so I apologize if I am incorrect, but if you complain about the Yanks not protecting their players (Jeter, Jorge, etc.) and then say you wish Alex didn't start trouble...I'm afraid I don't understand.

It was a terrible situation, but Alex honestly didn't start the trouble. I'm watching the Encore as we speak. He just took it.

Also, side note: I love Shelley Duncan. He ran out there ready to go to war for his team. I don't condone fighting, and I don't think he was trying to start a fight, but if one had broken out, I'm glad he's on our side.

Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 01:29 AM

I don't think last night shot at ARod was from the "Ha" thing. I think it was because how hard ARod went into 2nd after he was threw behind him. Arod should've just said "okay we're even" and been done w/ it. He kept it going w/ the slide. (and, then there was Damon's slide, too.)

I found ARod's staring at Towers from 1st to be childish. Get over it all ready.


Posted by: redbug [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 05:45 AM

Doesn't happen often, but you've missed the boat here Steve. T-E-A-M-M-A-T-E. A-Rod will never forget that Rocket had his back. I was concerned after Scotty was dealt that there wouldn't be enough toughness to protect the players. Roger taught Phil, Joba and WoKiWang how it's supposed to be done (Moose wouldn't have done the same, for example). No need to head hunt, but you have to make it clear that if you purposefully come after our guy, we'll fight back. Towers did what he felt he had to do. Everyone in the ballpark knew he was throwing at A-Rod. He did it without buzzing the tower. Umps should have given him the thumb, right then and there. Selig is a worm if he doesn't suspend both managers and both pitchers. Clemens should rip Selig in the press if it comes down any other way. Clemens can appeal until there is a break in the schedule that allows for a diminished impact.

5 back of Boston and now they've got some attitude and cohesion. Bunch of games left with Toronto. They'll be pumped for all of them.

Posted by: #15 [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 07:34 AM

For the record, I was 100% on board with Clemens hitting Rios last night – and, I expected nothing less from Roger. He’s as old school as old school gets about things like that. And, again, if there’s no “Ha!” play then none of this stuff ever follows – therefore, in my opinion, when Roger gets suspended, and he will, it all roots back to A-Rod’s call do scream “Ha!” (which was a bush league play – and, if you don’t believe me, ask Joe Torre).

As far as my “hatred for Alex,” well, hate’s a very strong word. And, I’ve never written that I hate Alex Rodriguez – ever. Have I gotten on him when he doesn’t produce to the level that his ability suggests that he should reach? Yes, without question – many times, in fact. Have I gotten on him when his actions, on and off the field, have brought cause for media and fan reaction that could be seen as an annoyance to the organization? Yes, I’ve done that too. But, I would do that for ANY Yankees player. I’ve done it about Cano. I’ve done it about Abreu. I’ve done it about Giambi. I’ve done it about Farnsworth. The list goes on and on. Yet, for some reason, many only care when I do it concerning A-Rod. Talk about being one-sided, huh?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 08:21 AM

~I don't think last night shot at ARod was from the "Ha" thing. I think it was because how hard ARod went into 2nd after he was threw behind him. Arod should've just said "okay we're even" and been done w/ it. He kept it going w/ the slide. (and, then there was Damon's slide, too.)~

Funny. I don't recall Damon being hit by pitch. Oddly enough, I do not recall Shelly being hit by a pitch either yesterday. Hmm. If Shelly or Duncan isn't hit today or brushed back, you might have to rethink this.

~I found ARod's staring at Towers from 1st to be childish. Get over it all ready.~

Interesting. How do you feel about Pena insulting the guy while AROD stood there? How about what the useless Towers said?

Only in the magical world of Alex Rodriguez and certain parts of the Yankee fan base, will a player retaliated against twice still be blamed and criticized for it. Talk about bush league. His calf/leg two days in a row? PATHETIC.

Posted by: Tarnished [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 08:23 AM

~~~His calf/leg two days in a row? ~~~

He was hit two days in a row? Did I miss the first one?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 08:50 AM

This post really ticks me off. You don't blame the Jays? You're blaming the immature actions of the Blue Jays on A-Rod? Kevin Towers calls Tony Pena a quitter and says that a quitter can't talk to him, and you think A-Rod is the guy to blame here? The Jays took their shot the day before and threw behind A-Rod, and A-Rod took it like a man. He had every right to be upset tonight, and Clemens did what was absolutely necessary. Besides, starting pitcher suspensions are easy to work around. These guys are throwing at A-Rods knees and you actually blame A-Rod for it? Unreal.

I'm sorry Steve but this anti A-Rod stuff has finally went too far in my eyes.

Posted by: JeremyM [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 08:54 AM

~~~You don't blame the Jays?~~~

Gee, I thought I did when I wrote:

***The Blue Jays have to let it go. The "Ha!" game pissed them off - and I don't blame them. The goons at MLB told Toronto, when the Jays last came to New York, that they didn't want to see any fireworks in Yankee Stadium. So, Toronto had to bite down on it and do nothing - until last night when they threw behind A-Rod. That should have been the end of it. But, nooooooo...***

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 09:03 AM

On Monday, the first pitcher threw behind Alex’s leg. Does missing on Monday justify yesterday’s actions?

“The list goes on and on. Yet, for some reason, many only care when I do it concerning A-Rod. Talk about being one-sided, huh?”

Steve, this is not true. Your whole blog is a testament to that. Even your Abreu post does not even tilt it. I think you mistake people’s silence when you post things like that for acquiesce. Step away from the AROD defenders mantra and think. One can only point it out to you so often.

Posted by: Tarnished [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 09:04 AM

~therefore, in my opinion, when Roger gets suspended, and he will, it all roots back to A-Rod’s call do scream “Ha!” (which was a bush league play – and, if you don’t believe me, ask Joe Torre).~

Why not go back in time a little more? If Aaron Boone hadn't gone against his contract this would never have happened. Or blame the gutless Brosius, deigning to retire when he could still play 3B as the most true Yankee that ever was.

Or let's directly blame Abreu. His lousy play in May caused Arod to choke while running the bases and yell "Ha". Plus if he wasn't so selfish he would have stopped at 1B on his triple Tuesday night lessening the chance the Jays would throw at Arod.

There you have it: Abreu will be shown to be the catalyst for Clemens' suspension.

Or maybe people should be credited/blamed for their own actions.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 09:56 AM

what's matt stairs problem? If he plays tonight he's gonna get beaned

Posted by: Corey [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 09:57 AM

~~~Or maybe people should be credited/blamed for their own actions.
~~~

So, Rich, who do you think is to blame and why?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 09:59 AM

--- But, there's a part of me that would be more than willing to punt some offense for a guy who just plays the game and saves the drama for his mamma. ---

I'm trying to find a nice way to put this but I don't think I can - this seems to be the most ignorant thing ever said on this blog.

Hey! Maybe Robin Ventura is available! He didn't cause much drama. Give me an f'n break. Let's "punt some offense" (which is a remarkable understatement) and sign a quiet, reserved guy who will be an extremely significant downgrade just 'cause you don't like the guy.

Games like last night can bring a team together.

Posted by: JJay [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:02 AM

my friend was telling me also that farnsworth didn't even leave the dugout, i don't recall...can anyone confirm this?

Posted by: Corey [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:05 AM

It seems that this comment from me "But, there's a part of me that would be more than willing to punt some offense for a guy who just plays the game and saves the drama for his mamma" is the one that is bothering some people the most.

Here's a question for you: Would you want Curt Schilling or Manny Ramirez playing for the Yankees now? How about Barry Bonds? Elijah Dukes?

If the answer is no, why not? They perform, don't they? It's probably because of the side-show that they create/bring with them, right?

That's all I'm saying here with that statement...is that, in my opinion, as a fan, sometimes I'd rather see a guy with 25 HR and 80 RBI on the team who never creates situations that are bothersome than have a guy with 40 HR and 120 RBI who is a lightning rod for controversy.

Does that make me ignorant, stupid, etc.? Well, if that’s your opinion, you’re welcome to it. Just as I should be welcome to mine. However, I will not call you ignorant or stupid for having an opinion. And, there’s the difference between us on this matter.

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:29 AM

~So, Rich, who do you think is to blame and why?~

I ASSume you're asking who is to blame if Clemens is suspended.

I don't think there's much of any blame to be made. It's a part of baseball. It'd be like blaming Melky last night for not making the shoetop catch. That's just how it goes.

If Clemens misses a turn because of this I'll just chalk it up to the positives (backing up your teammate) versus the negatives (who would pitch in his place). In the big picture I think the positives will outweigh the negatives.

You seem to have a need to blame someone for everything. Yesterday it was some bad games in May by Abreu. Holding people accountable is good but sometimes events just happen, there's not always a direct cause/effect.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:40 AM

“Ha!” (which was a bush league play – and, if you don’t believe me, ask Joe Torre).
==============
Joe Morgan had a different take. You had people coming down on both sides of the issue. I had no problem with the play, we called it "gamesmanship" in my day

So, what's worse, Rodriguez pulling a bush league stunt, or Howie Clark falling for it?

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:43 AM

~~~Holding people accountable is good but sometimes events just happen, there's not always a direct cause/effect.~~~

Agreed. So, you're saying in the case of the "Ha!" play, A-Rod getting brushed, and Clemens getting suspended are all just "Hey, stuff happens!" type things?

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:45 AM

Here's a question for you: Would you want Curt Schilling or Manny Ramirez playing for the Yankees now? How about Barry Bonds? Elijah Dukes?
=============
I would've taken Schilling from AZ. I would've had Manny replace O'Neill. I was hoping the Yanks would sign Bonds back in 1992. The jury is still out on Dukes, but I would've taken a flyer on him. Albert Belle too...

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:46 AM

my friend was telling me also that farnsworth didn't even leave the dugout, i don't recall...can anyone confirm this?
=================
Since there were no Blue Jays tackled, I'd have to say he didn't leave the dugout :)

Maybe he didn't want to risk throwing his back out?

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:49 AM

Corey,

I saw Farnsworth milling about when the teams were preening about. I remember seeing him there at least once if not both times since I remember thinking that even if he's pitching lousy he's a good guy to have on your side in a fight.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:49 AM

So, you're saying in the case of the "Ha!" play, A-Rod getting brushed, and Clemens getting suspended are all just "Hey, stuff happens!" type things?
=============
Sure. It's supposedly part of the game. Gamesmanship. If Towers and Clemens want to escalate it, that's their problem.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:54 AM

~Agreed. So, you're saying in the case of the "Ha!" play, A-Rod getting brushed, and Clemens getting suspended are all just "Hey, stuff happens!" type things?~

Yes, Steve, Yes. It's a part of baseball. Will I be happy if Clemens is suspended and it causes him to miss a start? No. But in the long run I think it will be for the best for the team. If it causes the Yankees to miss the playoffs so be it but if that's the case then the team doesn't deserve to make the playoffs.

You treat a 162 game season like it's 162 one game seasons. Players can't do that or they'll have cerebral hemmorhages a few times every week.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 10:59 AM

Last time I checked this was Steve's blog and he has a right to his opinion. If you disagree then fine just say so and state why you disagree.

I think ARod does bring alot of sideshow with him but in this case I'd have to say the Blue Jays are at fault. I still think Clark is an idiot for falling for that play and the fact the Blue Jays can't get over it ridiculous. If they don't like it then why don't they go out there and beat the Yankees.

I'm not suprised Clemens threw at them, we need someone on the team to do this. How many times have we said that someone needs to throw inside on Ortiz and complain that the Yankees never do it.

I was happy when I saw what Clemens did but part of me didn't like it either but some other people brought up the point that he will probably appeal any suspension and then drop the appeal at a point where he wouldn't be pitching anyway.

I think Steve is tough on any Yankees player who is struggling unless it is Jeter, Rivera, Pettite or Posada in most cases, but those are also the guys who have all the rings!

Posted by: antone [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 11:59 AM

So what have the Yankees won so far with Alex on the team? And no, I'm not laying all the failures of this current team at his doorstep. But a better starting rotation and bullpen and a solid player(s) at 3rd could mean at least as much success.

No player is worth what Bora$$ is seeking for Alex.

Bonds as a Yankee since 1992. Meaning me an ex-Yankee fan. Bonds was a sour pain-in-the-ass back then; Sheffield, Brown, RJ all rolled into one. And I'll bet, as I was just about the first person to connect the dots beginning in 1997, that Bonds was using PED's before 1999/2000. San Francisco area is a hotbed of that stuff.

Speaking of which, what a phony Henry Aaron turned out to be, recording that video they played after Bonds broke his record, a record that took Aaron 3000 AB's more to pass Babe Ruth than Ruth needed. Anyway, after telling people he didn't know who this guy was and asking what his (Bonds) name was and saying 'I can't spell his name', he records that video. Him and Frank Robinson. Yeesh.

Posted by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 01:51 PM

Hey, where's baileywalk? I thought the jays would never remember?
------

Hey, how'd I get involved in this? It never ceases to amaze me how the discussions/arguments on here seep so far into some people's brains that they remember what others said months later and still care.

The perfect word was used here to describe last night's throw at A-Rod: gratuitous. It was over. Then Towers had the nerve to talk shit to A-Rod. Just get over it already. Towers is bitter right now about his place in the rotation (he was mouthing off to the newspapers recently). I guess he wanted to take it out on A-Rod.

Honestly, I thought the story of the night was that Joba pitched two innings. Is that how they see him? Are they going to "baby" him by making him throw two every time he comes in? I just found that very strange.

Also, someone please punt cartoon-faced Jim Brower back to Scranton and get Ramirez or Britton up here. I never want to see that dude again.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 01:52 PM

By the way, here's what Towers said about Tony Pena.

"I heard somebody chirping and I didn't think it was Alex," Towers said. "I asked who it was and Tony Pena is running his mouth. ... He's a quitter. He was managing (the Royals in 2005) and he quit in the middle of a season because he couldn't hack it."

Clearly, Towers is a little prick.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 02:00 PM

You would punt some of the otherworldly offensive production for someone who is anonymous, because he isn't as good as A-Rod, and maybe seems like a cool dude?

Thank god you don't run the Yankees. Don't get me wrong, you seem like a cool dude, but your baseball team building priorities are, how do you say, "backward?"

Posted by: SteveB [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 02:14 PM

I love it when people say, "no player is worth the money that Boras wants for A-Rod." Because, you know, world class economists like Andrew fucking Zimbalist might tend to disagree with that sentiment.

Yeesh.

Posted by: SteveB [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 02:17 PM

Speaking of which, what a phony Henry Aaron turned out to be
==============
http://cardboardgods.baseballtoaster.com/

"But anyway the bitterness dissolved when I saw the words of a man who, like Buck O'Neil, might have real cause to be bitter. They are noble words, classy words, and they're true words, too. As unappealing as you or I might find the current record-holder, he did show a ton of "skill, longevity and determination." He is also, 'roids or not, the most fearsome hitter I've ever seen. Barry Bonds is a great baseball player.

Hank Aaron is a great man."

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 02:31 PM

~~~"Here's a question for you: Would you want Curt Schilling or Manny Ramirez playing for the Yankees now? How about Barry Bonds? Elijah Dukes?...because of the side-show that they create/bring with them, right?"~~~

That you would even compare the over-hyped and mostly manufactured AROD drama to the mess that Dukes, Schilling, and Manny bring elucidates the point I have been trying to drive in.

What has AROD done even remotely close to any of the things they do? Calling himself good looking? Failing in the playoffs? Strip clubs? The HA play? Diving hard to break a double play like every other player? All that is tantamount to Dukes? Schilling? Or even Giambi and steroids? The spotlight on Alex is stupid in as of itself, that anyone would use the stupid bull crap as off the field drama is extremely off.

If AROD leaves the spotlight will fall on the next player, and to an extent rightfully so. You want them gone to? Then who will be left to play for the Yankees?

Unreal.

Posted by: Tarnished [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 03:00 PM

Hank Aaron is a phony. All spring and early summer he kept talking down Bonds. Saying he didn't know how to spell his name, etc., etc. That is a put down and then Aaron shows up via video. Phony. And 'roids makes people more fearsome, but too many are still in denial.

Henry Aaron is not a great man. Winston Spencer Churchill is a great man.

Posted by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 05:08 PM

Andrew Zimbalist doesn't know what he's talking about far too often. Go ahead though and believe one player is worth $30++ million per year.

Then tell that to Jeter and Mariano and Posada. Heck, maybe the Yankees can manage a $300+ million payroll. After all, we are in a new economic era when recessions never happen...... Like home prices never go down but only go up, and other faerie tales.

Posted by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 05:16 PM

Hank Aaron is a phony. All spring and early summer he kept talking down Bonds. Saying he didn't know how to spell his name, etc., etc. That is a put down and then Aaron shows up via video. Phony.
============
Sounds more like played the public for the chumps they are. Do you honestly believe that he didn't know how to spell Bonds' name? After they did a commercial together? D'you think he's stupid?

You want phony? Try the owners and the fans. The owners looked the other way while the fans were flocking to the ballpark to see the home runs.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 05:20 PM

Go ahead though and believe one player is worth $30++ million per year.
=========
If that's what some owner is willing to pay, and the checks don't bounce, then that's what a player is worth.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 05:25 PM

So Steve: I guess you wouldn't have signed Reggie Jackson either? Ooops, there goes the '77 and '78 championships. A-Rod is an angel compared to the "Straw" not to mention many of the others in the Bronx Zoo era. I guess you would have traded the championships for less "drama".

Posted by: Josh [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 06:01 PM