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February 10, 2007
Bernie Has Debate, Not Case, For Cooperstown
Now that it appears Bernie Williams career is over, I decided to look at "Who he was?" in terms of an offensive player, based on his relative career offensive production. I was curious how different the results would be from the last time I took such a look at Bernie.
Anyone who has read my book knows what type of statistics that I like to use in such a compare, so here are the results:
George Sisler and Jimmy Ryan, huh?
While I like the Jimmy Ryan find - because he was an outfielder like Williams - I can't cling to it too much because he was a 19th Century ballplayer. When Ryan played, foul balls were not strikes. A base on balls once required three balls, then nine, then eight, then seven, then six, then back to seven before finally landing at four. Pitching distances were moved from 45 feet to 50 feet to 60.5 feet. For a while, pitchers were prohibited to throw over the shoulder and batters were permitted to call for high or low strikes to be thrown to them. And, until 1893, batters were allowed to use a bat that was flat on one side.
It was just a different game back then - when Jimmy Ryan played.
I love the George Sisler find here - because Sisler played from age 22 to age 37 which is exactly what Bernie Williams has done in the bigs, to date.
And, what's interesting here for Bernie Williams fans is that Sisler is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. However, Sisler was a great glove man as well as a great hitter. Bernie Williams, Gold Glove Awards aside, was not in the same class as Sisler with the leather.
And, that's probably what will keep Bernie out of Cooperstown - the defensive factor. Had Bernie been like Devon White or Tori Hunter in the field, along with the offensive numbers that he did post, he would have been a very strong case for Cooperstown. As it stands now, it's just an interesting debate.
Posted by Steve Lombardi at February 10, 2007 12:58 PM
Comments
Could Bernie qualify for the HoF with one more season? I think not. His strongest point is that he was the team leader during the Yanks championship years. Adding one more so-so season isn't going to add to that. If he plays in 2007 and hits as well as he did in 2006, he still would have fewer that 300 HRs and fewer than 2500 hits.
Posted by: David ![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.waswatching.com/nav-commenters.gif)
at February 10, 2007 02:57 PM
Yeah, Bernie doesn't quite cut it. Baseball Reference coincidentally has Bernie's most comparable player as Paul O'Neil. You are right that with excellent defense, Bernie would have made it. But like O'Neill, Bernie belongs in the Hall of the Very Good.
Posted by: jonm at February 10, 2007 03:18 PM
For non-numerical look at the "Should Bernie get in" question, Larry at RLYW did a Keltner List on Bernie a few years ago.
http://yankeefan.blogspot.com/2004/06/bernie-day.html
Posted by: Jen at February 10, 2007 04:52 PM
"But like O'Neill, Bernie belongs in the Hall of the Very Good."
Agreed. Along with Don Sutton, Kirby Puckett, and Phil Rizutto (Sorry, Steve.)
Posted by: brockdc at February 10, 2007 05:18 PM
The thing that will help Bernie the most is that there won't be many big names on the HOF ballot in 5 years. If Bernie decides to hang on for another year or two, he'd be going up against guys like Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Maddux, Randy, Glavine, Biggio, etc. Bernie's best chance at getting in the HOF is to retire now and hope that borderline guys like Gossage and Rice make it into the hall before Bernie's first year of eligibility.
Posted by: christopher at February 10, 2007 05:57 PM
~~~Agreed. Along with Don Sutton, Kirby Puckett, and Phil Rizutto (Sorry, Steve.)~~~
It's OK. As much as I love Scooter, I have to question his bat when it comes to being in Cooperstown.
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at February 10, 2007 08:45 PM
~~~Agreed. Along with Don Sutton, Kirby Puckett, and Phil Rizutto (Sorry, Steve.)~~~
Bernie has a better case than those three guys. I may have spoken too quickly. Maybe, Bernie should go in (if his post-season performance is taken into account).
We just have to see what standard gets used for the 1990s.
Right now, here are the 90s players who should go in (with the steroid question not addressed) before Bernie:
Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
McGwire, Bagwell, Frank Thomas
Biggio, Alomar
Jeter, Larkin
ARod
Bonds, Henderson, Manny Ramirez, Raines
Griffey, Jr.
Clemens, Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Glavine
Rivera
There are some borderline cases who could still do it -- Sheffield, Mussina, and Schilling. I could see Sheffield not getting in for character reasons and that's probably okay. Mussina and Schilling still have some work to do.
Posted by: jonm at February 10, 2007 11:37 PM