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August 30, 2006

August 30th vs. The Tigers - Game 2

Damn, just one out away from a "W".........

But, really, rather than blame Proctor, or what may be a developing "he said, she said" situation between Torre and Farnsworth, the fact of the matter in this evening's contest was that the Yankees had just 3 hits and 3 walks, on offense, in this game - and it's real hard to win a ballgame when you put so few runners on base.

Speaking of Everyday Scottie Proctor, I noticed something this evening that could be a concern for the Yankees.

Proctor had a lot of pine-tar on the bill of his cap this evening - both on the top and the under-side. And, Scott was going to the bill of his cap just about before every pitch.

Now, this is nothing shocking - lots of pitchers use the stuff to get a better grip on their breaking pitches in very humid or cold conditions. I'm sure that Proctor is using it to help get that big twelve-to-six curveball of his to do its thing.

I'm fearful that some smart manager, say, in a post-season game against the Yankees this October, could point to the pine-tar cap and get Proctor ejected from a game - and maybe suspended. It's happened before - just last year, with Brendan Donnelly.

Hey, if it happens, I warned you.

OK, let's move to the bright side of things: Jaret Wright got an out in 7th inning! And, the Red Sox (and Curt Schilling!) got beat today.

Add the Yankees win this afternoon to these two items and it's not such a bad day today, after all, even with this tough loss.

Posted by Steve Lombardi at August 30, 2006 10:33 PM

Comments

I was curious about Proctor entering the game tonight as well. Especially since he pitched earlier today.

Thought Dotel would get some work, but I figured he hasn't "earned" Torre's trust yet. Definately thought I would've seen either Farns or Rivera...

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:20 PM

This is as disgusting a loss as their is. While i remain grateful that this didnt happen in the 5th gm against the red sox, im sick and tired of us losing games in which Mo isnt available. We got cost another game vs this shit tigers team and one against the nationals and im sure there are others that i cant remember.

Can someone explain why Mo couldnt be warming waiting for a big situation like a 1-out save opportunity against a guy Granderson who is only going to get a hit against Mo b/c of luck. Its also simply amazing how every one of their popups just got out of play. It makes me sick. This same team went down on 6 pitches against Jon Papelstain a couple of weeks ago.

Finally, Im disgusted w/ myself and probably wont sleep tonight b/c i earlier wrote about the inability in 2004 and 2005 of proctor to throw strikes and of the lack of plate discipline of this loser tigers team and they both came back to bite me in the ass.

While the rest of you may think the tigers are a good team, i judge a team on the difference b/w the way they play the red sox and the way they play us. The tigers got lucky to get a couple wins off the red sox but when they were down against them, they just died on 6 pitches and against us decided they were going to win not one but two heartbreaking games. Even though Zach miner was sceduled to pitch this series, you can make damn sure they werent pitching that loser against us. Johan is scheduled to start tomorrow. If he does he will be on schedule to start next sunday v the tigers, their division rivals. I wonder and will not be surprised when the twins decide to hold Santana back to face us, effectively making him miss the entire tigers series next weekend

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:21 PM

I missed the post-game. What's the he said/she said between Farns and Torre? Did Farns say he could have pitched?

With the big lead, this loss doesn't hurt that much, but it's still frustrating to see Proctor turn back into Old Proctor. The New Proctor isn't perfect, but it was rather odd to see him make such a horrible pitch and give up the big home run. It seemed like that guy had gone away. I guess you can't discount the stress of getting the final three outs. I didn't think it was a big deal when he came out, but as soon as he walked his second batter I felt like the game was over.

I'm not trying to play 20-20 hindsight here, because I would have went with Proctor too, but I wonder if Torre considered using Dotel. Dotel's not one hundred percent, but closing doesn't bother him. You could see in Cali, when he had the bases loaded with no outs, that it didn't phase him one bit. He was still cool about the whole situation.

The good news is that Wright pitched well. Maybe knowing that Pavano was going to take his spot really did light a fire under him.

Here's hoping that they don't start Villone on Sunday, which would be a total and complete disaster.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:25 PM

Also, im very pessimistic, so i knew that it would cost us b/c of our inability to get a big hit in the first game so we had to use Mo and the fact that they couldnt go down on 6 pitches vs him so he could pitch tonight. No, Guillen decided he was going to be a professional hitter instead of just dying w/ 2 outs like i guarantee you he would have v. that faggot papelbon.

Thank you Steve, I never knew how good it feels to get out my anger to write this shit down instead of talking to deaf ears.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:29 PM

Hey, I live to give....... ;-)

Torre said in the YES post-game that Farn's back prevented him (Torre) from going to him (Farns). In the same post-game, Farns said that his back was not all that bad and that he was available to pitch, if needed. And, he guessed that Torre was justr being extra careful.

Very bad for Farns to say something the opposite of the Godfather, IMHO.

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:33 PM

The good news is that Wright pitched well. Maybe knowing that Pavano was going to take his spot really did light a fire under him.
===================
Pitching against the Tigers helped :)

Tigers are leading MLB in RSAA? Who woulda thunk it?

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:40 PM

nysupremacy,

Were you one of the good folks who booed Proctor off the mound, by any chance? C'mon....in the grand scheme of things, this game really doesn't matter. Everyone knows it's really hard to sweep a DH. Yeah, it sucks that they lost, but in a 162-game season things like that are going to happen, deal with it. Running Rivera out there would've been unacceptable, he already threw 14 pitches earlier today and he would have had to warm up just the same, be it one out or three; they need him to be 100% in October. With an 8-game division lead, losses like this are a little easier to stomach.

Posted by: YankeeMonkey [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 30, 2006 11:42 PM

I'm shocked, shocked, that no mention was made of A-Rod's should-have-been-game-winning RBI.

Granted, Jeter did take third to set it up and granted the ball went about 65 feet, but in a big spot, A-Rod did what you have to do: scored the run from third with less than two outs.

For those of you scoring at home, that's twice that the bullpen had deleted "clutch" performances from A-Rod's ledger in the past week.

Posted by: SMinDC [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 12:19 AM

I for the most part do not boo any of our players. Even Alex Rodriguez, i find it sometimes hard to forgive him, but i generally blame the failure of our team on B-Cash, Torre, umpires, bad luck, or myself and our loser commentators for jinxing us like tonight w/ Proctor. A-Rod is a product of the umpires and bad luck and the stupidity of yankee fans. He has what is called learned helplessness. No matter what he does, hell never get treated fairly and will more often than not be punished. Because of all the times hes been cheated by umpires, he swings at bad pitches b/c he isnt sure if they will be called strikes. When he rips a ball like he did when figgins made the catch or w/ the bases loaded against the mets in shea, he doesnt get rewarded, rather he gets punished by a good catch by an otherwise loser defensive outfielder cliff floyd. Also, when he pops a ball up, it doesnt get out of play like it does for steroid enhanced papi or manny, it just gets caught. Instead of our fans understanding this, they boo him which hurts him too.

This game was the product of our morons not getting a big hit or even a lucky hit in the 1st game or jeter going 3-4 in the 1st game but his only out came with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out which didnt get it in. Its also primarily the product of carlos guillen working an at-bat against Mo that he wouldnt have done v the red sox.

With the way weve been playing lately, one heartbreaking loss like this could damage us. Please do not count the red sox out. I never counted them out up 3-0 which is why it sickened me to see their fans in game 4 with signs conceding defeat. They were rewarded for their lack of loyalty. I do not want the NYY to be punished for people saying that the division race is over. Im still watching the white sox tigers and twins and hoping they lose so we can maintain at least a wild card spot.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 12:30 AM

Also, just so you dont think im crazy with the jinxing, ive written down how many times i asked aloud for a double play this year and the result of the at-bat each time. Keep in mind that sometimes i do it while nervously moving forwards and backwards and do not mean to jinx us.
Ive asked for a double play 42 times and the player reached base 39 times. Tell me thats not bad luck.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 12:36 AM

Maybe some good news tonight, though he is nothing special, Jon Lester might have cancer. The same way Pedro Gammons just recovered from a brain aneurysm and David Ortiz will just come back, even if he does have cancer, it will just magically disappear. If he were a yankee, hed be sidelined kinda like C.P. (forever) but nobody on their team succumbs to injury or even possibly dies in a plane crash in the prime of their career.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 01:49 AM

MO has pitched both games of a twin-bill before. But..... People have noticed lately that after he's pitched he's wrapped with extra large amounts of ice. Michael Kay asked MO about this and he said he's fine, a few others also asked and got the same response. Still, why he wasn't available is a question.

Proctor cannot walk two hitters, that will always bite you in the asp.

RJ has been lousy in his career with extra rest so we'll see.

Posted by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 02:00 AM

BTW..... Alex killed a potential huge rally with his weak groundout. But I like to see him hitting a few the opposite way. I think he'll break out soon.

Posted by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 02:03 AM

I wonder if we were in nearly the same position with 2 outs and nobody on would any Yankee or Joe or Proctor be smart enough to walk Papi and Manny to put the tying and winning runs on as long as Youkilis isnt batting 5th. Probably not, but lets go ahead and pitch around the ever dangerous loser inge and granderson. What a joke. The granderson at-bat was kind of Proctor's fault but not totally, as granderson is a strikeout machine and surely wouldve struck out to end the game v the red sox, but kept on fouling of pitches that of course couldnt stay in play.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 02:32 AM

Hey "nysupremacy": YOU DISGUST ME!

I can't believe your arrogance thinking it's good news that anyone might have cancer.

I would have tried to send a note to Steve first but I can't find a way to email Steve directly.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 06:52 AM

Agreed RICH.

I have a bit more to say on the matter, but I'm going to do the right thing and hold my tongue.

As for the Yankees, I've lost the will to comment.

Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 07:38 AM

About nysupremacy - Steve, do you ban anyone from making comments on this site? Being happy about someone getting cancer is sickening and even though I'm nothing close to the PC Police I don't think the "Faggot" stuff is necessary either. In this case I think 1 strike is enough.

Just my $.02

Posted by: JJay [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 08:53 AM

Agreed all.

nysupremacy - please, use discretion and sensitivity when posting - otherwise, I will have to close your account.

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 09:13 AM

You more than warned us, you tipped the smart manager off! ;)

Posted by: pokeefe [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 09:17 AM

I don't think Mo not pitching the second game indicates anything but that the Yankees have a big lead over a stumbling team. If the Yankees were only up one game, you would see Mo in the second game. But with this lead -- and the Sox already having lost -- who cares? Might as well save Mo.

The situation was pretty rough for Proctor. They call on him to close it -- and it's a one-run lead. He had to be thinking about what a huge step this close would be for him. And he went out there and didn't pitch at all like he had been.

Seeing the way Dotel pitched in Anaheim, I might have gone to him. But Torre didn't, and you have to hope this doesn't stick in Proctor's mind.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 09:44 AM

Torre's logic on using Proctor, I'm sure:

1. We're playing today, so, I'll pitch Proctor at some point.
2. Mo? No can go. Farns? I think no can go. Who's number 3 after those two? Oh, yeah, Proctor.

I would bet $100 that Torre nnever thought of using someone like Dotel to close out the game - since he had yet to use Proctor.

Posted by: Steve Lombardi [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 10:18 AM

Torre preferred Proctor. Dotel was warming up, though I don't know if it was to prepare to come in or to get some work in.

You can't be too disappointed with going with Proctor rather than Dotel since you've written how worthless you think Dotel is.

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 11:28 AM

I am truly sorry to those that I offended. It is not my intention to wish harm on anyone. I just felt that if he did, it is not like he would die from it b/c the red sox would pay every possible cost to ensure his safety. I just figured he might have to miss next season and though it should be low anyway, he might lose more trade value in the offseason.

I just have to wonder though if any of you werent in the slightest way happy and hoping about Peter Gammons & David Ortiz for their roles in baseball. One for lying about red sox prospects and bashing yankee prospects and the other for tarnishing baseball with steroids.

Posted by: nysupremacy [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 12:20 PM

RICH, was that comment about Dotel directed at me? When did I ever say Dotel was worthless? I was disappointed earlier that Torre WASN'T using Dotel. I wanted him to get in there and knock off the rust. I thought he looked very good in a tough situation in Anaheim.

Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 12:35 PM

[quote] I don't think Mo not pitching the second game indicates anything but that the Yankees have a big lead over a stumbling team. If the Yankees were only up one game, you would see Mo in the second game. But with this lead -- and the Sox already having lost -- who cares? Might as well save Mo. [/quote]

pokeefe - I still disagree with this kind of strategy, unless the Yanks truly believe they have the postseason wrapped up and do not want to catch Detroit for home field. I believe that this stratecgy is what leads to Torre's "house money" and "save Moose for game 5" logic.

I think it is valid, at the start of the game when it is still 0-0, to say we have a large lead, Jaret Wright is pitching, we already won game one of the DH, and I am going to give some of the key guys a rest. Chances are, the Tigers score a bunch of runs on Wright and the game is out of reach quickly. You take the loss, but Mo and Farns get to rest.

But, when you have a lead with 2 outs in the 9th, that's when you should trash the plan and go for the kill. Unless, of course, you are really just forfeiting the game. I'm much too lazy to run the numbers, but my guess is that even the worst teams in history have a better than 95% chance of winning a game where they hold a lead with 2 outs in the 9th. When the odds are that far in your favor, you have to take advantage.

To me, it's like getting good odds on your money in poker. You may have started out just limping in, but if you end up with overwhelming pot odds, you have to go all-in.

Just my $0.02

Posted by: Kered Retej [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 02:00 PM

That wasn't my comment, that was baileywalk's. No worries. :)

I actually basically agree though. I wouldn't pitch Mo twice in one day with an 8 gameish lead in the division.

Posted by: pokeefe [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 03:24 PM

Baileywalk, my comment about "Dotel was worthless" was a reply to Steve (1018AM) who's written before about his distaste for Dotel

Posted by: RICH [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 04:42 PM

Torre's logic on using Proctor, I'm sure:

1. We're playing today, so, I'll pitch Proctor at some point.
==================
lol...

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 10:40 PM

I just have to wonder though if any of you werent in the slightest way happy and hoping about Peter Gammons & David Ortiz for their roles in baseball. One for lying about red sox prospects and bashing yankee prospects and the other for tarnishing baseball with steroids.
===============================
And that's worth an aneurysm and an irregular heartbeat?

Riiiiiight.

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 31, 2006 10:43 PM