July 27, 2006
From Ken Rosenthal -
The three AL East contenders — the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays — all sent scouts to watch right-hander Jon Lieber, who pitched Wednesday night, and right-hander Cory Lidle, who pitches Thursday. The Cardinals and Reds were among the other clubs represented.
I've already gone on record about Lieber.
So, I thought I would share some thoughts on Lidle.
When the A's had him, from 2001 to 2002, he was a good pitcher. He then went to the Blue Jays in 2003 and the Reds in 2004 - and stunk in both spots.
When he joined the Phillies, he became an average pitcher - not good but not bad. He'll get you about 6 IP each time out.
With the Yankees offense, if they picked him up now, Lidle could win 7 games over the next two months.
Basically, he won't kill you - but, he's not going to go 10-2 in New York over the remainder of the season.
For the right price, I would take him. But, I would rather have Lieber.
Posted by Steve Lombardi at July 27, 2006 01:52 PM
But will he eat innings? That is what the team needs. Didn't RJ and Mussina go just six innings each in Texas (yeah, yeah, the heat - gotta have some excuse)? Followed by Wright who will not give innings.
This is heading in the wrong direction as far as IP by the starters
Lieber and Lidle are interchangeable and they both stink. Both guys give up a lot of hits. Lidle strikes out more people than Lieber; Lieber walks less people than Lidle.
Both are pitching in the NL and having lousy years. I seriously doubt either one would help the team, and I don't think either one is an upgrade over Chacon or Ponson.
OMG. You would not take Leiber over Ponson?
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at July 27, 2006 03:40 PM
Uh, "dude!," Lieber's numbers this year are disgusting. The only asset he has is that he doesn't walk anyone. His hits-to-innings-pitched numbers are usually catastrophic. He's getting his ass handed to him every fifth day in the NL -- what would happen here?
And Ponson was doing better before he came here?
At least Liber has a good recent past. Ponson's been bad news for a while now.
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at July 27, 2006 03:53 PM
Yeah, and Ponson cost us nothing. The Phillies will actually want something for Lieber. AND he's been hurt. If Lieber was DFA'd, I'd take him in a second. But I'm not going to trade a decent minor-leaguer for a guy who isn't an improvement on people already on the team.
Funny, I remember Lieber as being the best pitcher on the Yankees during the 2nd half of 2004. Is that so far removed?
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at July 27, 2006 04:41 PM
Go back and look at his numbers from that year. They matched his career numbers, which include a ton of luck. His time with the Yankees has been overrated. Lest we forget, his ERA was 4.33 and his WHIP 1.32. He did well against the Sox in the playoffs, but I don't think he's shown all that much with the Phillies this year to outbid another team and give up a real prospect for a him.
Lieber pitched 218 IP last year and had 9 RSAA. That's luck?
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at July 27, 2006 05:02 PM
I was referring to him being lucky as a Yankee -- he gave up 216 hits in 176 innings, which is ugly.
And with the Phillies last year he gave up 223 hits in those 218 innings.
Unless you're a double play machine like Wang, and throw a 97-mile-an-hour sinker, I find it disturbing when someone can't keep men off of the bases. Lieber has average stuff. Does he even have one pitch that could be considered plus? He works fast, throws strikes, and can give you innings. But his margin for error is zero. If he doesn't hit his spots, he gets blasted. Even when he DOES hit his spots he gets blasted. Like I said, I'd welcome Lieber if it didn't cost anything, but I wouldn't give up anything to get him.
"I'd welcome Lieber if it didn't cost anything, but I wouldn't give up anything to get him."
We agree there. But, we probably disagree on what's "anything" - but, it's OK to agree to disagree.
Posted by: Steve Lombardi at July 28, 2006 08:02 AM