WasWatching.com

Agreed, Steve, but the most critical point is that a weakened Rivera had to pitch 2 innings to get that save. He blew Arizona away in the 8th, just like the guy Tom Kelly described in 1996, "looks like he came down from a higher league." That's the first season where the Yankees bullpen sprung leaks that hampered their post-season (lack of talent and over-use of key contributors). And that's the last time the Yankees were 2 outs away from a championship. You connect the dots.

And that's not taking into account the steroids-aided efforts of some key pitchers on WS-winning teams from 2001 - 2005 (hey, I'm sure it goes back to the late '80s). It's comical to me that Yankees-haters point to Giambi and Sheffield and choose to ignore the very real possibility that, as it worked out, PEDs had more to do with dethroning the Yankees than installing the Yankees' mini-dynasty.

Without having any proof, I'd still agree that the likelihood of LuGo and the Marlins using PEDs runs pretty high and that the Yanks lost the WS in 2001 and 2003 to guys on the juice. But we shouldn't get holier-than-thou about it since there's no way to say that X Marlins or X D-Backs used but that no Yankees used from 1996-2000 or even in our losing efforts in 2001-2005. We already know Giambi and Sheffield did and we can only guess as to the identities of the other Yanks. I'm not going to name the names of Yanks I personally suspect but we do have to acknowledge that the Braves, Padres, and Mets could make the same claims of us (even if our winning teams were pretty darn good regardless of PEDs).

He hit 57 home runs?! I must have forgotten, blocked it out or let it get lost in those McGwire/Bonds years...

MJ, I'm not claiming the Yankees didn't use PEDS. I'm only saying that the general perception out there is that everyone else who won (obviously McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc. didn't)was innocent of PED abuse.

I know it, JohnnyC. Just a general reminder for the thread that the Yanks are as innocent/guilty as everyone else. It was a systemic issue, not a team issue.

He hit 57 home runs?! I must have forgotten, blocked it out or let it get lost in those McGwire/Bonds years...
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Yep, he hit 57. The year before, he hit 31, and since he has hit 28, 26, 17, & 24

LuGo didn't do all that well in the 2001 postseason; check his #'s on baseball-reference

As for the 2003 Marlins
http://thejuice.baseballtoaster.com/archives/292826.html

In the book about that World Series by Buster Olney (I hate the title so I won't repeat it;), they go into great depth about how Gonzalez was able to become a power hitter. It might be a bunch of crap, but he doesn't really look like a steroid user- granted, that doesn't mean much. And he's had a lot of power-sapping should problems in the last few years which could explain in part his decline.
But I don't really think we should worry about if he did use or not, as the 2000 Yanks had Canseco for a couple months, who didn't help at all but he was on the team, and Glenallen Hill was a huge guy as well who carried the team for a month or so that year--he could've been clean but that's the danger of pointing fingers like this.

Oh, and is there any truth to the rumor that Mariano said he could only go one inning before that game? If I remember right Stanton was dealing, so I can only help but wonder what would've happened if they stuck with him.

Oh, and is there any truth to the rumor that Mariano said he could only go one inning before that game? If I remember right Stanton was dealing, so I can only help but wonder what would've happened if they stuck with him.
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David Justice PH for Stanton in the 8th inning. Singled. Rivera came in for Justice.

Info provided courtesy of Retrosheet.

"Oh, and is there any truth to the rumor that Mariano said he could only go one inning before that game? " I heard it from a pretty good source. Still, it's "no game tomorrow time" - so, he has to be able to go as long as needed.

Oh? I thought MO looked pretty solid in the ninth. Except for his throwing error and then Brosius' failure to turn a [likely] 5-3 DP. He would have saved game seven methinks.

What rankles is Pettite's two poor starts, especially his blowup in game six after that magnificent Yankee Stadium three game sweep.

But then maybe, just maybe, the Pettite failure can't be blamed on Joe Torre but MO pitching two innings in game seven can be.

I'm not blaming Torre Don, I was just curious. Frankly, Mo didn't pitch in game 6 so I don't think it was a bad move to make him go 2 innings, even if it didn't work out and he didn't think he was up to it. It's game 7 of the World Series, even if you're arm is dead you man up, and I doubt Mo had any reservations about coming in when it was all said and done.

And Brosius definitely should've turned 2 and I'm still shaking my head on his decision not to. I can still see that stupid ball pulling Jeter off the bag at second base...